The Ford Barn

tubman · 05-12-2018, 07:45 PM

When I pulled the pan on my 258" to change the oil pump I discovered a couple of unrelated things I think are kind of interesting. The first is that there are at least two different length dipsticks and dipstick tubes for the 8BA series engines. I have a Mercury oil pan on this engine, and it requires a longer dipstick and tube. The tube I had in it initially was 8 3/8" overall and the engine read overfull with five quarts. I then found one that was 10 3/4" long. With this and the proper dipstick, the engine read 1/2 quart low. I had researched 8BA pans, and on the H.A.M.B. I found a thread that said a Mercury will take 6 quarts of oil. I added the sixth quart, and now the dipstick shows about 1/2 quart over. (This was with a new filter as well.) I had never thought about it before, but there are different length dipsticks and tubes for these engines. I just assumed they were all the same. I remember seeing threads where guys had some odd problems with oil levels on flatheads. I'll bet this had something to do with it.

The second thing I found is that now matter how new your gaskets are and how careful you are in taking the pan off, you'll probably end up with oil leaks. After I pulled the pan, I inspected the gasket and seal surfaces closely, and they looked perfect to me. Before i put the pan back on, I sprayed the gasket surface with Permatex "Copper-Coat" and put a dab of non-hardening sealer on the ends of the gasket where they meet the seals. I was able to get the pan back on with no problems, and torqued the bolts to the proper reading. I started and ran the engine and did my tests. I thought all was fine. When I went to my shop today there was about a nickel-sized pool of oil under the rear seal. In addition, it looked like there was a fine spray out of the front seal; not much, but enough to see it. This engine has a one-piece front seal and it fit perfectly into the recess in the pan formed by the RTV that was put in there to seat it. I'm hoping that this is the result of some excess oil that leaked out when I had the pan off and subsequently dripped down. I'll check again in a couple of days and hopefully it will stop. And here I was so proud that neither of my last builds leaked a drop. Oh well, there is always engine stop leak.

Ol' Ron · 05-13-2018, 05:47 AM

Some engine installations make the oil dipstick hard to reach, For this reason I use a 1/2: thin wall tune threaded with NF threads and shaped to make access easier. Now a modern dipstick cam be modified to show the right amount of oil. Something to think about.

RKS.PA · 05-13-2018, 08:07 AM

Not sure from your post, but did you replace the pan gasket when you reinstalled the pan? I'm asking because I'm contemplating trying to "fix" my 59 AB leaking rear seal without pulling the engine. I hate "leakers" but after all that effort, I don't want to make is worse!!! I have a one piece front seal that's good, but I think the rear rope wasn't cut "proud" enough at installation with a tab of silicone on each end!!

Ross F-1 · 05-13-2018, 09:37 AM

The dipsticks are marked

Bored&Stroked · 05-13-2018, 11:49 AM

Me, I always mark the stick after I put it together . . . as I never know where all the parts came from . . . and don't rust that any of them belong together or not.

tubman · 05-13-2018, 12:06 PM

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"RKS" - I left the original pan gasket on the pan. It appears to have been "glued" to the pan and assembled to the block with no sealant, and appreared pristine, except for being compressed. At this point, I am not even 100% sure I have leaks, as the small amount of oil involved may have seeped out of the engine as is sat for a couple of days with no pan on it while I fooled around with oil pumps. It may be OK. I did put a spot of non-hardening sealer on the ends of the pan gasket, just like I would do on an initial installation. Time will tell.

"Ross F-1" - Looks like at least three different combos. I wonder how many have been "mixed 'n matched" over the last 70 years. When you say "marked", you mean for oil level etc. I looked at the dipsticks I have and none have any indication of their intended use ("8CM", "8BA", "8RT").

Ross F-1 · 05-13-2018, 01:23 PM

Until recently I had one each of 8BA, 8RT, and 8CM dipsticks and their tubes. All the dipsticks are actually stamped right above the Full mark (see 2nd pic above). The 8BA was out of a '50 shoebox, the 8RT from a 49 F-3, the 8CM appears to be from a '50-'51.

The 8CM dipstick has some stamped offsets to keep it from rattling in the tube. 8CM is the longest at 14-1/4" cap to Full mark, 8BA in the middle at 13-3/8" cap to Full, 8RT is the shortest at 12-5/8" from cap to Full mark. As I recall offhand, all 3 tubes were identical.

cmbrucew · 05-13-2018, 09:22 PM

To be safe, at an oil change put 5 quarts of oil. Start engine and check for leaks. stop engine and note level of oil on the stick. Make your own full line by filing a line or a notch. With this exercise it makes no difference whether you run a filter or not.
Your mark shows the oil level with 5 quarts.
Bruce

Tim Ayers · 05-14-2018, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmbrucew

To be safe, at an oil change put 5 quarts of oil. Start engine and check for leaks. stop engine and note level of oil on the stick. Make your own full line by filing a line or a notch. With this exercise it makes no difference whether you run a filter or not.
Your mark shows the oil level with 5 quarts.
Bruce

Good advice.

05-12-2018, 07:45 PM	#1
tubman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys Posts: 10,319	A couple of unrelated things I found when I did my oil pump test When I pulled the pan on my 258" to change the oil pump I discovered a couple of unrelated things I think are kind of interesting. The first is that there are at least two different length dipsticks and dipstick tubes for the 8BA series engines. I have a Mercury oil pan on this engine, and it requires a longer dipstick and tube. The tube I had in it initially was 8 3/8" overall and the engine read overfull with five quarts. I then found one that was 10 3/4" long. With this and the proper dipstick, the engine read 1/2 quart low. I had researched 8BA pans, and on the H.A.M.B. I found a thread that said a Mercury will take 6 quarts of oil. I added the sixth quart, and now the dipstick shows about 1/2 quart over. (This was with a new filter as well.) I had never thought about it before, but there are different length dipsticks and tubes for these engines. I just assumed they were all the same. I remember seeing threads where guys had some odd problems with oil levels on flatheads. I'll bet this had something to do with it. The second thing I found is that now matter how new your gaskets are and how careful you are in taking the pan off, you'll probably end up with oil leaks. After I pulled the pan, I inspected the gasket and seal surfaces closely, and they looked perfect to me. Before i put the pan back on, I sprayed the gasket surface with Permatex "Copper-Coat" and put a dab of non-hardening sealer on the ends of the gasket where they meet the seals. I was able to get the pan back on with no problems, and torqued the bolts to the proper reading. I started and ran the engine and did my tests. I thought all was fine. When I went to my shop today there was about a nickel-sized pool of oil under the rear seal. In addition, it looked like there was a fine spray out of the front seal; not much, but enough to see it. This engine has a one-piece front seal and it fit perfectly into the recess in the pan formed by the RTV that was put in there to seat it. I'm hoping that this is the result of some excess oil that leaked out when I had the pan off and subsequently dripped down. I'll check again in a couple of days and hopefully it will stop. And here I was so proud that neither of my last builds leaked a drop. Oh well, there is always engine stop leak.

05-13-2018, 05:47 AM	#2
Ol' Ron Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Chester Vt Posts: 8,860	Re: A couple of unrelated things I found when I did my oil pump test Some engine installations make the oil dipstick hard to reach, For this reason I use a 1/2: thin wall tune threaded with NF threads and shaped to make access easier. Now a modern dipstick cam be modified to show the right amount of oil. Something to think about.

05-13-2018, 08:07 AM	#3
RKS.PA Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Marana, AZ Posts: 1,194	Re: A couple of unrelated things I found when I did my oil pump test Not sure from your post, but did you replace the pan gasket when you reinstalled the pan? I'm asking because I'm contemplating trying to "fix" my 59 AB leaking rear seal without pulling the engine. I hate "leakers" but after all that effort, I don't want to make is worse!!! I have a one piece front seal that's good, but I think the rear rope wasn't cut "proud" enough at installation with a tab of silicone on each end!!

05-13-2018, 11:49 AM	#5
Bored&Stroked Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 5,067	Re: A couple of unrelated things I found when I did my oil pump test Me, I always mark the stick after I put it together . . . as I never know where all the parts came from . . . and don't rust that any of them belong together or not.

05-13-2018, 12:06 PM	#6
tubman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys Posts: 10,319	Re: A couple of unrelated things I found when I did my oil pump test Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) "RKS" - I left the original pan gasket on the pan. It appears to have been "glued" to the pan and assembled to the block with no sealant, and appreared pristine, except for being compressed. At this point, I am not even 100% sure I have leaks, as the small amount of oil involved may have seeped out of the engine as is sat for a couple of days with no pan on it while I fooled around with oil pumps. It may be OK. I did put a spot of non-hardening sealer on the ends of the pan gasket, just like I would do on an initial installation. Time will tell. "Ross F-1" - Looks like at least three different combos. I wonder how many have been "mixed 'n matched" over the last 70 years. When you say "marked", you mean for oil level etc. I looked at the dipsticks I have and none have any indication of their intended use ("8CM", "8BA", "8RT").

05-13-2018, 01:23 PM	#7
Ross F-1 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: NM Posts: 2,438	Re: A couple of unrelated things I found when I did my oil pump test Until recently I had one each of 8BA, 8RT, and 8CM dipsticks and their tubes. All the dipsticks are actually stamped right above the Full mark (see 2nd pic above). The 8BA was out of a '50 shoebox, the 8RT from a 49 F-3, the 8CM appears to be from a '50-'51. The 8CM dipstick has some stamped offsets to keep it from rattling in the tube. 8CM is the longest at 14-1/4" cap to Full mark, 8BA in the middle at 13-3/8" cap to Full, 8RT is the shortest at 12-5/8" from cap to Full mark. As I recall offhand, all 3 tubes were identical. __________________ '52 F-1, EAB flathead

05-13-2018, 09:22 PM	#8
cmbrucew Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: North of sandy ago, CA. Posts: 2,064	Re: A couple of unrelated things I found when I did my oil pump test To be safe, at an oil change put 5 quarts of oil. Start engine and check for leaks. stop engine and note level of oil on the stick. Make your own full line by filing a line or a notch. With this exercise it makes no difference whether you run a filter or not. Your mark shows the oil level with 5 quarts. Bruce __________________ Works good Lasts long time