The Ford Barn

Joe KCMO · 05-24-2010, 09:46 AM

Is there any difference between a 59ab and a stock 46 thru 48 original equipment V8?

Dale Fairfax · 05-24-2010, 09:52 AM

59ab IS the original equipment in '46-'48. The "5" in 59 indicates a 1945 engineering release and initial production.

flatjack9 · 05-24-2010, 08:35 PM

And the 9 indicates 239 cu in.

Frank Cowan · 05-24-2010, 09:54 PM

Ok. What about the a and b.

55 dude · 05-25-2010, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Cowan

Ok. What about the a and b.

X2!

Bruce Lancaster · 05-25-2010, 10:12 AM

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That is on the head, indicating a change. 59A-6050-A head marked 59A on casting has 77-79 cc chamber. 59A-6050-B head, marked 59AB, has 73.5-75.5 chamber spec.
I don't know date of change. B head replaced A head for service, too, with note to change both if a head was needed.

John Kennedy · 05-25-2010, 10:17 AM

COOL! I learned a little more about my 59AB.
I didn't think AB was for Anheuser-Busch

Bruce Lancaster · 05-25-2010, 10:23 AM

I think the V8 club magazine published a long series of build-change dates for '46-8 Fords in the 1990's. Those would most likely date the changeover.
My flying guess is that they went conservative on compression because of the postwar turmoil and supply uncertainties, then found that the gas available could safely take a bit more.
They always had to be conservative, since in stick-shift-only days lazy drivers lugged around in high gear to avoid the bother of shifting.

Richard (EV8G) · 05-25-2010, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flatjack9

And the 9 indicates 239 cu in.

Actually indicates Mercury, which had been 239" since 1939 (99A);
post-war (59-A) = 1945/Mercury/Passenger... Ford and Mercury
both 239" 46-48.

Neal · 05-25-2010, 12:56 PM

This thread seems to be getting diverted from the original question but it brings up a question I have had for awhile about a motor that I have. So here I go and high-jack it even more. What does 95 mean on the bellhousing? I am guessing it was for a truck around the 1939 time frame. It has the 3 3/16 bore. Thanks.

Neal

Bruce Lancaster · 05-25-2010, 01:04 PM

Basic designation for a 3 3/16 engine in 1939, whether used in truck or Merc, was 99, and it was not generally cast onto (USA made) engine. Some 99's have the designation STAMPED on the flat block surface at RF of intake manifold, apparently for assembly line purposes, as the 221 looked the same.

Joe KCMO · 05-25-2010, 01:23 PM

Interesting about 99 stamped on the flat of intake. I have a flathead with 99 xxxx stamped where you described. I have been told often, flatheads do not have serial numbers. This appears to be one.

Bruce Lancaster · 05-25-2010, 01:47 PM

They keep cropping up with apparently factory serials. Two thoughts: Engines fully finished as running units got serials. Some engines for industrial purposes were built without transmissions...they probably got block stampings. And...were there perhaps legal jurisdictions that required an engine number??

Joe KCMO · 05-25-2010, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Lancaster

They keep cropping up with apparently factory serials. Two thoughts: Engines fully finished as running units got serials. Some engines for industrial purposes were built without transmissions...they probably got block stampings. And...were there perhaps legal jurisdictions that required an engine number??

Fully finished engines got serial numbers where on the block?

Bruce Lancaster · 05-25-2010, 02:49 PM

A normal finished engine was an engine/trans unit with serial on trans. Ford considered that the engine number, and it became the frame number at assembly.
I think the only engines furnished fully finished w/o trans would have been a portion of the industrial engines. A new long block only would not have been serialed. It had to be produced ready to run to count in the serial order.

Ross in East Texas · 05-25-2010, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe KCMO

Fully finished engines got serial numbers where on the block?

My 1939 Standard Coupe 221 engine has the serial number stamped at the front left flat by the intake manifold. It is the same number as on the transmission as well as the frame. This example at least, had the serial numbers stamped on all three components.

Bassman/NZ · 05-25-2010, 05:11 PM

My C59A engine has heads marked CR7-A or something similar (I'm at work, so going by memory). I know the C is for Canada,, but it seems strange that they had different heads to the US model. I've seen other C59A engines with the same heads here in New Zealand so I dont think they've been swapped.

Steves46 · 05-25-2010, 05:15 PM

The stamping on the driver's side is 59-AB and 59-A on the passenger side. Steve

Joe KCMO · 05-25-2010, 05:50 PM

I do not have the matching car, but my mercury engine has a 99 followed by what appears to be a serial number for what I was told is a 39 mercury engine on the flat intake manifold surface. Interesting?

Bruce Lancaster · 05-26-2010, 11:04 AM

The Canadian C7RA heads had two suffixes...one kind was iron and one aluminum. The iron ones I think are same CC as the 59AB, and replace the Canadian C59A...in other words, same change as USA. The aluminum ones area slightly higher compression than any of the postwar iron heads, US or Canada. So Ford Canada in the iron series made the same change as we did with the 59AB, but switched to the new year system that was starting then on some parts...like 6A parts here.
All 99 serials are in the same series, so a 239 truck and a Merc might have seials one digit apart.
Steve, you have slightly low compression on the "A" side if all matches specs for the two different heads.

05-24-2010, 09:46 AM	#1
Joe KCMO Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Miami, Florida Posts: 423	Difference between a 59ab and stock 46-48 Flathead Is there any difference between a 59ab and a stock 46 thru 48 original equipment V8?

05-24-2010, 09:52 AM	#2
Dale Fairfax Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 250	Re: Difference between a 59ab and stock 46-48 Flathead 59ab IS the original equipment in '46-'48. The "5" in 59 indicates a 1945 engineering release and initial production.

05-24-2010, 08:35 PM	#3
flatjack9 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oshkosh, Wi Posts: 4,527	Re: Difference between a 59ab and stock 46-48 Flathead And the 9 indicates 239 cu in.

05-24-2010, 09:54 PM	#4
Frank Cowan Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Cocoa FL Posts: 66	Re: Difference between a 59ab and stock 46-48 Flathead Ok. What about the a and b.

05-25-2010, 10:12 AM	#6
Bruce Lancaster Member Emeritus Join Date: May 2010 Location: Madison, NJ Posts: 5,230	Re: Difference between a 59ab and stock 46-48 Flathead Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) That is on the head, indicating a change. 59A-6050-A head marked 59A on casting has 77-79 cc chamber. 59A-6050-B head, marked 59AB, has 73.5-75.5 chamber spec. I don't know date of change. B head replaced A head for service, too, with note to change both if a head was needed.

05-25-2010, 10:17 AM	#7
John Kennedy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Tucson Arizona Posts: 301	Re: Difference between a 59ab and stock 46-48 Flathead COOL! I learned a little more about my 59AB. I didn't think AB was for Anheuser-Busch __________________ Building a 29 Sedan on 32 chassis........ very slowly....

05-25-2010, 10:23 AM	#8
Bruce Lancaster Member Emeritus Join Date: May 2010 Location: Madison, NJ Posts: 5,230	Re: Difference between a 59ab and stock 46-48 Flathead I think the V8 club magazine published a long series of build-change dates for '46-8 Fords in the 1990's. Those would most likely date the changeover. My flying guess is that they went conservative on compression because of the postwar turmoil and supply uncertainties, then found that the gas available could safely take a bit more. They always had to be conservative, since in stick-shift-only days lazy drivers lugged around in high gear to avoid the bother of shifting.

05-25-2010, 12:56 PM	#10
Neal Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: North Dakota Posts: 129	Re: Difference between a 59ab and stock 46-48 Flathead This thread seems to be getting diverted from the original question but it brings up a question I have had for awhile about a motor that I have. So here I go and high-jack it even more. What does 95 mean on the bellhousing? I am guessing it was for a truck around the 1939 time frame. It has the 3 3/16 bore. Thanks. Neal

05-25-2010, 01:04 PM	#11
Bruce Lancaster Member Emeritus Join Date: May 2010 Location: Madison, NJ Posts: 5,230	Re: Difference between a 59ab and stock 46-48 Flathead Basic designation for a 3 3/16 engine in 1939, whether used in truck or Merc, was 99, and it was not generally cast onto (USA made) engine. Some 99's have the designation STAMPED on the flat block surface at RF of intake manifold, apparently for assembly line purposes, as the 221 looked the same.

05-25-2010, 01:23 PM	#12
Joe KCMO Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Miami, Florida Posts: 423	Re: Difference between a 59ab and stock 46-48 Flathead Interesting about 99 stamped on the flat of intake. I have a flathead with 99 xxxx stamped where you described. I have been told often, flatheads do not have serial numbers. This appears to be one.

05-25-2010, 01:47 PM	#13
Bruce Lancaster Member Emeritus Join Date: May 2010 Location: Madison, NJ Posts: 5,230	Re: Difference between a 59ab and stock 46-48 Flathead They keep cropping up with apparently factory serials. Two thoughts: Engines fully finished as running units got serials. Some engines for industrial purposes were built without transmissions...they probably got block stampings. And...were there perhaps legal jurisdictions that required an engine number??

05-25-2010, 02:49 PM	#15
Bruce Lancaster Member Emeritus Join Date: May 2010 Location: Madison, NJ Posts: 5,230	Re: Difference between a 59ab and stock 46-48 Flathead A normal finished engine was an engine/trans unit with serial on trans. Ford considered that the engine number, and it became the frame number at assembly. I think the only engines furnished fully finished w/o trans would have been a portion of the industrial engines. A new long block only would not have been serialed. It had to be produced ready to run to count in the serial order.

05-25-2010, 05:11 PM	#17
Bassman/NZ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Napier, New Zealand Posts: 2,001	Re: Difference between a 59ab and stock 46-48 Flathead My C59A engine has heads marked CR7-A or something similar (I'm at work, so going by memory). I know the C is for Canada,, but it seems strange that they had different heads to the US model. I've seen other C59A engines with the same heads here in New Zealand so I dont think they've been swapped.

05-25-2010, 05:15 PM	#18
Steves46 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Lithia, FL Posts: 1,050	Re: Difference between a 59ab and stock 46-48 Flathead The stamping on the driver's side is 59-AB and 59-A on the passenger side. Steve __________________ If it aint broke, don't fix it!

05-25-2010, 05:50 PM	#19
Joe KCMO Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Miami, Florida Posts: 423	Re: Difference between a 59ab and stock 46-48 Flathead I do not have the matching car, but my mercury engine has a 99 followed by what appears to be a serial number for what I was told is a 39 mercury engine on the flat intake manifold surface. Interesting?

05-26-2010, 11:04 AM	#20
Bruce Lancaster Member Emeritus Join Date: May 2010 Location: Madison, NJ Posts: 5,230	Re: Difference between a 59ab and stock 46-48 Flathead The Canadian C7RA heads had two suffixes...one kind was iron and one aluminum. The iron ones I think are same CC as the 59AB, and replace the Canadian C59A...in other words, same change as USA. The aluminum ones area slightly higher compression than any of the postwar iron heads, US or Canada. So Ford Canada in the iron series made the same change as we did with the 59AB, but switched to the new year system that was starting then on some parts...like 6A parts here. All 99 serials are in the same series, so a 239 truck and a Merc might have seials one digit apart. Steve, you have slightly low compression on the "A" side if all matches specs for the two different heads.