The Ford Barn

Capt Kirk · 08-30-2015, 04:41 PM

I've got an opportunity to buy a flathead. The ad simply says 47 Ford and I haven't yet got a response to my questions. It's not rebuilt and has expected patina for it's age but doesn't appear to be all rusted up.
I've been building engines since my early 20's but have zero experience with building flatheads. The last several years I've been building Jeep 4.0's to sell as a hobby and have had a decent market for them.
I don't need this flathead...my 35 has a fairly fresh A-B in it. I'd want this engine to build so I can learn more about them and to sell to someone that might need it when I'm done. I don't do stuff half-a$$ed and I have an awesome machine shop that does all my machining work. The guy's asking $250 for it and, according to the pictures looks like it's almost all there...including the air cleaner and exhaust manifolds. The Fuel pump is missing.
My questions to you all...are there any concerns with this engine that would make it less desirable for someone to purchase. Is it interchangeable with other years and/or vehicle makes and types that would increase it's marketability? If it's simply worn out, does the cost of new replacement rebuild parts make this project a money looser or is there some meat left on the bone after I'm done? I'm not out to make a living doing this but I'd like to at least make some beer money. Thanks for your input! Kirk

rheltzel · 08-30-2015, 04:48 PM

Before anything else, check for cracks. If crack-free, proceed to other considerations. If cracks, forget about it. Others will disagree, but I won't touch a block that's got cracks.

deuce_roadster · 08-30-2015, 05:24 PM

The condition of the block will decide if it is a money "winner" or "loser". All the internal parts are easy to come by. Most people buy and tear down 3-5 engines before finding one that has few cracks and worth rebuilding. That is the big bummer, you have time and $ into it before you really can say whether it is good or not. Realistically you need to hot tank/redi strip the block, mag, pressure test, sonic test before you make the decision as to rebuild it or not.
That block will bolt into any 32-48 Ford easily. If it is a 59 series engine it will have 59 cast into the bell housing area and straight pan rails.
Someone is always looking for a good engine, so if you do rebuild it, you will probably find a buyer.

Capt Kirk · 08-30-2015, 05:42 PM

He's asking $250. If he still has it, I'd offer $175 and take it from there. Would all the ancillary parts...carb, distributor, intake and exhaust manifolds, heads, pan...etc. get me my money back if the block was toast? My machinist hot tanks and mag's all my stuff...some expense there on top of the initial investment but that's ok if I'm not going to loose a few hundred finding out. All of this might be a little premature since the guy hasn't got back to me yet but I'd like to have a better idea of what I'm going to do if/when he does. Thanks for the advice!

Capt Kirk · 08-30-2015, 05:58 PM

A couple pictures

Charlie Stephens · 08-30-2015, 06:02 PM

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Buy it and check it out but I would wait to rebuild it until I had someone interested. Reduces risk and lets the buyer have it built to exactly what they want.

Charlie Stephens

deuce_roadster · 08-30-2015, 06:14 PM

Not sure if you could get 175 for the parts if the block is no good. The air cleaner is probably the most valuable part I see in the pictures. It has an earlier (33-36) distributer.

Capt Kirk · 08-30-2015, 06:34 PM

Deuce...I thought that might be the case about the air cleaner. I've been buying worn out, blown up jeep 4.0 engines for several years. Most of the time I don't know what I have till I get into them. Most of the time I do alright but there's been times where a disintegrated piston lets the wrist pin makes hamburger in a cylinder. Block toast but crank, rods and all the other accessory stuff are rebuildable. Just waiting to hear back from this guy to see what's up. I asked if the crank still turns and if he knows why the engine was pulled. Answers to those questions will affect my decision.

bobH · 08-30-2015, 06:36 PM

For whatever it's worth... a few years ago, I had a lot of bucks in a 59A block (which I originally got for free). Then I found out that the block had fatal problems that we could not solve. It leaked water into the crank case through a hole that appeared above the cam gear. And it leaked water coming out the #1 exhaust port. Could not see exhaust port problem, and decided we couldn't fix it - not accessable. We felt the RF area of the block was weak, and we should not trust it. Our mistake... we did not pressure test it.
How the bucks were spent... hot tank, mag test, acid dip, replace couple valve seats, clean again, bore it, install cam bushings, balance it, assemble, test-stand run, etc. I feel I spent foolishly. Please learn from my mistake.
Do you want to go there, just for the heck of it? And, at least in my area, private party built engines are in my opinion, a hard sell. Too many well known EFV8 club guys with good reputations, building engines. I like building engines, and I've built well over a hundred (other brands), some of them for myself. But, I am leary of flatheads, primarly because of some bad experiences. Just opinion. And, I'm not saying don't do it. Just be aware.
Me, as a no-name, can't compete.

deuce_roadster · 08-30-2015, 06:38 PM

Can you get a better picture of the distributor? Particularly the left and right sides? IF that is a 32 distributor, it alone would be worth $500.

Capt Kirk · 08-30-2015, 06:44 PM

Duce,
No, I just copied the pictures from his ad. He hasn't responded to me yet. Just sent him another email so we'll see. Might be another one of those "too good to be true" things but he's 5 miles away so I figured I'd at least try. Isn't that carb worth something too?

ford38v8 · 08-30-2015, 07:23 PM

Cap'n, You might make arrangements with the seller to pay him full asking price if the block checks out, and subtract that cost if it doesn't. Otherwise, simply remove the heads to discover any cracks on the face between valves and bores, and chance it from there. The bolt-ons are worth only core value, nothing there hard to get. As stated above, the air cleaner may be the most valuable, maybe $60? Too bad the generator is missing, that would be a good one to have. As Charlie said, a bare block that checks out good can be a better starting place for a buyer to specify the build.

08-30-2015, 04:48 PM	#2
rheltzel Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 368	Re: 47 Ford engine Before anything else, check for cracks. If crack-free, proceed to other considerations. If cracks, forget about it. Others will disagree, but I won't touch a block that's got cracks.

08-30-2015, 05:24 PM	#3
deuce_roadster Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Shelton, WA Posts: 3,800	Re: 47 Ford engine The condition of the block will decide if it is a money "winner" or "loser". All the internal parts are easy to come by. Most people buy and tear down 3-5 engines before finding one that has few cracks and worth rebuilding. That is the big bummer, you have time and $ into it before you really can say whether it is good or not. Realistically you need to hot tank/redi strip the block, mag, pressure test, sonic test before you make the decision as to rebuild it or not. That block will bolt into any 32-48 Ford easily. If it is a 59 series engine it will have 59 cast into the bell housing area and straight pan rails. Someone is always looking for a good engine, so if you do rebuild it, you will probably find a buyer.

08-30-2015, 05:42 PM	#4
Capt Kirk Senior Member Join Date: May 2015 Location: Clarkston MI Posts: 830	Re: 47 Ford engine He's asking $250. If he still has it, I'd offer $175 and take it from there. Would all the ancillary parts...carb, distributor, intake and exhaust manifolds, heads, pan...etc. get me my money back if the block was toast? My machinist hot tanks and mag's all my stuff...some expense there on top of the initial investment but that's ok if I'm not going to loose a few hundred finding out. All of this might be a little premature since the guy hasn't got back to me yet but I'd like to have a better idea of what I'm going to do if/when he does. Thanks for the advice! __________________ 35 Ford Cabriolet 56 Chevy Pickup 63 VW Bug Empty wallet

08-30-2015, 06:02 PM	#6
Charlie Stephens Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern California Posts: 7,032	Re: 47 Ford engine Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Buy it and check it out but I would wait to rebuild it until I had someone interested. Reduces risk and lets the buyer have it built to exactly what they want. Charlie Stephens Last edited by Charlie Stephens; 08-30-2015 at 06:11 PM.

08-30-2015, 06:14 PM	#7
deuce_roadster Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Shelton, WA Posts: 3,800	Re: 47 Ford engine Not sure if you could get 175 for the parts if the block is no good. The air cleaner is probably the most valuable part I see in the pictures. It has an earlier (33-36) distributer. Last edited by deuce_roadster; 08-30-2015 at 06:17 PM. Reason: dist earlier then I first thought

08-30-2015, 04:41 PM	#1
Capt Kirk Senior Member Join Date: May 2015 Location: Clarkston MI Posts: 830	47 Ford engine I've got an opportunity to buy a flathead. The ad simply says 47 Ford and I haven't yet got a response to my questions. It's not rebuilt and has expected patina for it's age but doesn't appear to be all rusted up. I've been building engines since my early 20's but have zero experience with building flatheads. The last several years I've been building Jeep 4.0's to sell as a hobby and have had a decent market for them. I don't need this flathead...my 35 has a fairly fresh A-B in it. I'd want this engine to build so I can learn more about them and to sell to someone that might need it when I'm done. I don't do stuff half-a$$ed and I have an awesome machine shop that does all my machining work. The guy's asking $250 for it and, according to the pictures looks like it's almost all there...including the air cleaner and exhaust manifolds. The Fuel pump is missing. My questions to you all...are there any concerns with this engine that would make it less desirable for someone to purchase. Is it interchangeable with other years and/or vehicle makes and types that would increase it's marketability? If it's simply worn out, does the cost of new replacement rebuild parts make this project a money looser or is there some meat left on the bone after I'm done? I'm not out to make a living doing this but I'd like to at least make some beer money. Thanks for your input! Kirk __________________ 35 Ford Cabriolet 56 Chevy Pickup 63 VW Bug Empty wallet

08-30-2015, 06:34 PM	#8
Capt Kirk Senior Member Join Date: May 2015 Location: Clarkston MI Posts: 830	Re: 47 Ford engine Deuce...I thought that might be the case about the air cleaner. I've been buying worn out, blown up jeep 4.0 engines for several years. Most of the time I don't know what I have till I get into them. Most of the time I do alright but there's been times where a disintegrated piston lets the wrist pin makes hamburger in a cylinder. Block toast but crank, rods and all the other accessory stuff are rebuildable. Just waiting to hear back from this guy to see what's up. I asked if the crank still turns and if he knows why the engine was pulled. Answers to those questions will affect my decision. __________________ 35 Ford Cabriolet 56 Chevy Pickup 63 VW Bug Empty wallet

08-30-2015, 06:36 PM	#9
bobH Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: so cal, placerville, vegas Posts: 1,394	Re: 47 Ford engine For whatever it's worth... a few years ago, I had a lot of bucks in a 59A block (which I originally got for free). Then I found out that the block had fatal problems that we could not solve. It leaked water into the crank case through a hole that appeared above the cam gear. And it leaked water coming out the #1 exhaust port. Could not see exhaust port problem, and decided we couldn't fix it - not accessable. We felt the RF area of the block was weak, and we should not trust it. Our mistake... we did not pressure test it. How the bucks were spent... hot tank, mag test, acid dip, replace couple valve seats, clean again, bore it, install cam bushings, balance it, assemble, test-stand run, etc. I feel I spent foolishly. Please learn from my mistake. Do you want to go there, just for the heck of it? And, at least in my area, private party built engines are in my opinion, a hard sell. Too many well known EFV8 club guys with good reputations, building engines. I like building engines, and I've built well over a hundred (other brands), some of them for myself. But, I am leary of flatheads, primarly because of some bad experiences. Just opinion. And, I'm not saying don't do it. Just be aware. Me, as a no-name, can't compete.

08-30-2015, 06:38 PM	#10
deuce_roadster Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Shelton, WA Posts: 3,800	Re: 47 Ford engine Can you get a better picture of the distributor? Particularly the left and right sides? IF that is a 32 distributor, it alone would be worth $500.

08-30-2015, 06:44 PM	#11
Capt Kirk Senior Member Join Date: May 2015 Location: Clarkston MI Posts: 830	Re: 47 Ford engine Duce, No, I just copied the pictures from his ad. He hasn't responded to me yet. Just sent him another email so we'll see. Might be another one of those "too good to be true" things but he's 5 miles away so I figured I'd at least try. Isn't that carb worth something too? __________________ 35 Ford Cabriolet 56 Chevy Pickup 63 VW Bug Empty wallet

08-30-2015, 07:23 PM	#12
ford38v8 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 6,645	Re: 47 Ford engine Cap'n, You might make arrangements with the seller to pay him full asking price if the block checks out, and subtract that cost if it doesn't. Otherwise, simply remove the heads to discover any cracks on the face between valves and bores, and chance it from there. The bolt-ons are worth only core value, nothing there hard to get. As stated above, the air cleaner may be the most valuable, maybe $60? Too bad the generator is missing, that would be a good one to have. As Charlie said, a bare block that checks out good can be a better starting place for a buyer to specify the build. __________________ Alan