Phaeton top rest question

[wrndln]

I have a question someone might be able to answer concerning 28/29 phaeton top rests. The question is: Was there a grommet originally used to seal the space around the top rest stud and the large hole in the body quarterpanel? I am attaching a picture of the area I am referring to. This is a picture I downloaded from eBay, I think, and is not my car.
Rusty Nelson

[al's28/33]

No grommet, either you have the top rest installed (screwed in place) or there was a plug in the hole. They were painted black, not body color.

[wrndln]

Thanks, Al for the information.
Rusty Nelson

[mack4759]

Rusty,

Ours has black rubber plugs about an inch in diameter (that need to be replaced, they keep coming loose).

I cusory look in Brattons and Snyders on-line catalogs came up with nothing, but I bet if you called them they would be able to locate them.

Robert

[Arlen]

I've looked and looked. Can't find anybody who has anything even close that works for the rubber plug. If anybody has any luck, share the info please.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Originally Posted by Arlen

I've looked and looked. Can't find anybody who has anything even close that works for the rubber plug. If anybody has any luck, share the info please.

I checked with Metro Rubber in the Twin Cities, and it would cost a couple grand just to make the first short run. I looked at all their plugs and don't see anything close, nor anything that could be modified to work.

[barnstuf]

The plug is not rubber but metal. My 1929 Phaeton was purchased from the original owner who was very proud that he had never folded the top. I have never folded the top. It has metal plugs that are not flat but just a bit convex.

[al's28/33]

I use metal plugs also, mine are flat and have a little play as they are not fit to the exact size of the hole. I do believe they were painted black but mine are the natural metal finish.

[wrndln]

The problem I can see with flat metal plugs is the area of the quarterpanel is rounded a little. Maybe the curvature isn't enough to cause the plugs to look wrong. I do wonder how difficult it would be to remove the plugs once installed. I know you can find metal plugs that are probably pretty close to what the original metal plugs looked, assuming they were metal, like from ACE hardware. A few month ago, I bought a 1/2" diameter metal plug with a slightly rounded top to it from ACE to plug the wiper hole in the front of the gas tank of my 29 CCPU. Someone sent me a picture of an original gas tank plug and the new one from ACE look just like it. See picture below.
Rusty Nelson

[DougVieyra]

Al - can you tell me your source for causing you to think the plugs were painted black ? I have not been able to find anything that says the plugs were painted black.

On my '28 Phaeton, I fold the top down about two or three times a year, so my top bow rest-bolts & saddles are in an out quite a few times. I always put the body hole plug in when the top is up - it looks 'wrong' with a 'gapping' un-filled hole in the body.

My plug is metal and is an exact fit for the hole, which I got from a plumbing / hardware store. A good supplied plumbing shop will have scores and scores of different sizes and shapes of plugs - made of different materials - mostly chromed metal. These have the tension-holder tabs - much like the wheel hubcap - and snap in quite easily, and are quite easy to extract when removing. I painted my metal plugs the same color as my body, which I believe is proper, and draws less attention to the capped hole.

Both my bolt and saddle are painted black. I used to have the rubber grommet for the hole in the body, but it was a pain-in-the-but, as it hindered significantly, my screwing and unscrewing the bolt as it was taken out, and again as it was replaced. Working with the top-saddle bolt is MUCH easier WITHOUT the hole's missing rubber grommet.

I should mention that when I have my top up (90% of the time) I always remove the saddle/bolt, and replace the cap in the body hole. Some phaeton drivers do not bother, so for them, this issue is less of a problem.

[al's28/33]

It was from one of the Model "A" books, either "as Henry Built it" or "Henry's Lady" just somewhere it mentions that the folding top knob was also black. Mine again is bare metal finish.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by al's28/33

It was from one of the Model "A" books, either "as Henry Built it" or "Henry's Lady" just somewhere it mentions that the folding top knob was also black. Mine again is bare metal finish.

I consider "Henry's Lady" a picture book, and not a reference book. Years ago it was one of the first Model A books I bought, but soon learned it was mostly a bunch of pictures of painted Model A whether they were "restored" correctly or not.

Does anyone have proof of the plugs being metal?
Every original I've seen has been rubber.

[Ron Geer]

The plugs that fill the holes where the studs go to hold the top rests when they are removed are black rubber, not metal and not painted body color. The correct rubber plugs are available from Restoration Specialtes and Supply, Inc.P.O.Box 328 Windber, PA. 15963 . Phone Nimber 814-467-9842 or 814-467-9282 and Fax No. 814-467-5323 . Dave Mihalko and Family own this Company. Dave Jr. Made a mold in 2003-2004 to reproduce the correct rubber plugs based on some original plugs that came off of my all original Feb. 28 Phaeton, Engine No. 35 ,363 which I was restoring for fine point judging at thst time. You can call Dave Jr. And ask him for the plugs that he made for Ron Geer since I do not know what number they may have assigned to this item since they have a very large catalog. Ron Geer

[wrndln]

Thanks, Ron. I will give them a call and see if they have any left.
Rusty Nelson

[Jim/GA]

RS&S has a web site, an online catalog, and a PDF file catalog. I have used them in the past.

http://www.restorationspecialties.com/index.html

I have looked through their catalog for these plugs in the past and not recognized them. Not every part is illustrated in the catalog.

Rusty, please share their part number for the rubber plugs when you get it.

[wrndln]

Jim,
No problem. I sent them a message to them a short time ago. If I don't get a reply by tomorrow afternoon, I will give them a call.
Rusty Nelson

[al's28/33]

Good thread.....I'll be interested in a set myself now!!

[Krmtrains]

Did anyone locate these parts? I just purchased a ‘28 Phaeton and want these plugs. I see Restoration Specialties is still in business, so I’ll call them.

[Synchro909]

Are top rests available from the vendors? Part number please if they are.
My tourer has never had them but I'd like to have them for when I put the roof down.

[jimTN]

The rest itself is a threaded on one end rod. It has a saddle with a set screw that clamps to the rod. Both are available from the vendors and you could make the rods.

[frank55a]

Attached are 4 Ford factory photos showing the top rest plug. The first 2 photos are of a 28 it appears that the plug is solid (no hole) and appears that it might be painted body color. The 3rd and 4th photos are of a 1929 it appears that in 29 the same type solid plug was used and also that it was painted body color also.

[modelanut]

Lots of great information shared. Thanks. I have a 1931 and have ordered the saddles and studs from Mike's. The previous owner welded the holes shut so I need to know the proper hole diameter to redrill.

[AYooperA]

My ‘29 Phaeton a has hole diameter of 7/8”. The threaded rod for the saddle is 7/16”-20 fine thread. I am thinking a 1931 would be the same but can’t say with certainty. My Phaeton had those rubber plugs that was discussed above in old post. Dad took them out circa 1960 for going topless. He had saved them but are petrified rubber today.

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by Synchro909

Are top rests available from the vendors? Part number please if they are.
My tourer has never had them but I'd like to have them for when I put the roof down.

The silence has been deafening so I guess no one supplies either the top rests or plugs.

[Jim/GA]

Originally Posted by Synchro909

Are top rests available from the vendors? Part number please if they are.
My tourer has never had them but I'd like to have them for when I put the roof down.

This is the 1928-29 top saddle (1/2 inch hole):
https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/p...1820&cat=41755

Use these studs:
https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/p...d=978017&cat=0

Add the leather pad and leather hold-down straps:
https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/p...1826&cat=41913

See if these plugs will fit:
https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/p...1812&cat=41913

I leave my top saddles installed on my '29 phaeton all the time. To dress up the look of the opening with the stud in it, I install them along with a radiator shell grommet. The smaller grommet used for the horn fits perfectly. This is not 100% original authentic, but it looks good. YMMV.

Hope that helps.

[Synchro909]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Thanks Jim. I note that some of those components are for a Model T. Did they carry the same design forward through 1928/9?

[Jim/GA]

Originally Posted by Synchro909

Thanks Jim. I note that some of those components are for a Model T. Did they carry the same design forward through 1928/9?

Yes.

I have copies of the original Ford blueprints where they struck out the Model T part number and put a Model A part number on it. Very interesting.

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by Jim/GA

Yes.

I have copies of the original Ford blueprints where they struck out the Model T part number and put a Model A part number on it. Very interesting.

OK, so now, all I have to do is find some way of getting them. I haven't had an account at Snyders for at least 10 years. When they updated their system, leaving everyone to create a new account, I didn't bother. I'll try my usual supplier.

[wrndln]

I am going to order a pair of the plugs. I called Snyder's and ask if they would fit a model A - specifically a 28/29. The Snyder's fellow didn't know, but he ask someone and they said the hole diameter they fit on a model T was 13/16", which is very close to what my 29 phaetons top rest hole is. When I receive them, I will post whether they fit or not. I made this post over a decade ago!
Rusty Nelson

[al's28/33]

I still have my common bare metal hole plugs. Let me know if anyone needs more pics or dimensions.

[Jim/GA]

The following supplier has an extensive assortment of metal hole plugs. You can probably find one there that will work. I did not want to use metal because it will chip the paint at the edges of the hole when you insert it and remove it. I guess Henry wasn’t concerned about that.

https://mrgusa.com/

[rotorwrench]

In aviation we always referred to the metal ones as Willkie button plugs. They have a multitude of sizes. They are used to plug holes in instrument panels and sheet metal access holes. There are also plastic and rubber versions.

[wrndln]

I hate to disagree that the plugs were metal. But I have a picture of a fine point 28 phaeton and it had an unpainted black rubber plug. It is Dave Lopes' phaeton when Marco was upholstering it. I suppose Dave may have receive a deduction, but I doubt it.
Rusty

[Jim/GA]

I actually think rubber is the way to go. As I said before, I think metal will harm the paint.

[wrndln]

Here is an update on the phaeton top hole plugs thread I started years ago. Yesterday I received the model T rubber hole plugs I ordered from Snyder's - T-3858-P. I installed them and they fit perfect! In addition, they are very easy to remove. They aren't cheap, but worth it.
Rusty Nelson

[Jim/GA]

I'm glad to hear that, Rusty. If I did not leave my top props in all the time, I'd use those rubber plugs. I like to be able to drop my top at a moment's notice. After you've done it a few times, you see it's not that hard to do. But you really do need a second person to help move it back and not pinch the fabric material in the irons.