Rear Wood Sills: when is damage too much damage?

[Bud]

I would like to ask owners/restorers of cars with wood sills such as convertible sedans, victorias, cabriolets, and some wood bodied fordors, at what point the sills need to be repaired or replaced? I am referring to the area at the rear frame cross member and rearward near the rear wheel well. Assume for the moment the paint and sheet metal are in good condition. Can splits or seams or dry rot be tolerated in this area? Can a bad section be replaced or repaired? Or does the entire sill need replacement? Can the sill be repaired without disassembling the body entirely? What methods of repair can be used? If repaired, will the problem recur shortly? I attached a few photos of examples I am referring to. Thanks in advance to all that reply.

[J Franklin]

Time for replacement, or drive slowly.

[slammin]

30 years ago I was restoring two 1800s houses, an 1884 Victorian and and 1850s Federal. Both had sill problems due to dry rot or insect infestation. IIRC there were a few epoxy products that could be injected into damaged wood. Has anyone tried something like that on damaged Model A wood?

[Terry, NJ]

If it's just a repair job and you can push a knife blade for any distance into the wood, replace it. If it's a restoration, just replace it.
Terry

[Kevin in NJ]

Not holding nails is your clue.

The wood has to be able to hold fasteners to do its job.

How to fix it, well that is beyond my knowledge. Well aside from replacing it.

[ronn]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

That wood doesnt look terrible. If you have no sag and the wood seems to be holding up- I wood nt touch it.

If you are restoring the car, then replace it all.

[Dick Carne]

It appears to me that perhaps the left side has already been spliced, and if so, there would be very little support to be gained from that end of the side floor sill for the rear cross sill. Most of the remaining wood appears to be in fairly good condition for an 85-90 year old car, but given the overall condition, I would feel much better with new wood sills. I suppose the ultimate decision rests with your plans for the car. If this is one that you might be planning to keep and drive on a somewhat regular basis, the safe solution would be to replace these. These pieces will only continue to worsen over time, despite any temporary repairs you might make. However, replacing floor sills is a pretty dramatic process. From your pictures, I would not be surprised if the remaining interior wood was in much better shape, given its comparative lack of exposure to outside elements; if so, those components would not necessarily require replacement if that wood is still able to hold the upholstery nails in place (you would still need to remove the metal door post coverings in that event, since the posts are secured with wood screws an then the metal covering applied afterwards). However, should you decide to replace the sills, then the body should be removed from the frame (as I am sure that you are well aware), and new floor sills matched and fitted with the interior support wood - not an altogether difficult task, but still one that will require a number of hours to complete. When I completed my '29 Briggs Town Sedan, I purchased an older, un-used set of body wood pieces and floor sills ... unfortunately it was for a Murray-bodied car, and while most of the pieces could be altered or at least served as an initial starting pattern, the floor sills are far from being interchangeable. I'm not sure which body manufacturer you have, but I can make a pattern if you happen to have a Murray-bodied car (however, there may be a need to modify that area that meets up with the cowl section if you have a 30-31 car (I will soon be rebuilding another '29 Murray fordor for my oldest daughter and her family, so I will need to keep the floor sills that I would be using for a pattern). However, given the condition of your sills, I rather suspect that at the worst, they are more than adequate to serve as a pattern for new sills.

Good luck to you in whatever course you might determine.

[Bud]

The photos are just for reference. They are from two different vehicles (I am not the owner). The darker photos are from one car. The pair of photos with the rusty sheet metal is from another car (this example is the worst of the two) . They are both Briggs body 68C cabriolets.

[Bud]

Looking for additional input on this topic. Please see the questions in my first post. Thanks.

[Russ B]

The answer lies in “what is the intended use of the car?”, and in “how nice does the owner want the car to be?”.

The rails on my cabriolet were rotted out in the rear when I got the car in 1958-59. I was just a kid needing a car to drive. We step spliced some oak onto the back couple feet of both main rails. With other cosmetic work, I had a cool enough car during my high school years. The doors sagged, pinched flesh and sometimes popped open, but that was okay.

I retired the car for another Model A, a Tudor, but kept the cabriolet until I had time and money needed to make it right, fifty years later. I eventually spent thousands of my own hours making it right, to my personal standards over about six years. I enjoyed every minute I worked on it.

Replacement of wood takes a lot of time and effort. If the car is holding together, it may be good enough; but on the other hand, if the door alignment is off enough to bother you, you might want to tear it apart completely and replace and fit all the wood and repair all sheet metal rust. It is a personal decision for each car and each owner.

[aermotor]

Minwax wood hardener is excellent for soft wood and areas where there are too many nail holes.

John

[Dr. OldKat]

Originally Posted by slammin

30 years ago I was restoring two 1800s houses, an 1884 Victorian and and 1850s Federal. Both had sill problems due to dry rot or insect infestation. IIRC there were a few epoxy products that could be injected into damaged wood. Has anyone tried something like that on damaged Model A wood?

Thirty years ago I was in year 3 of a 5 year restoration of a raised cottage.

It, too, had some bad sills; some of which I replaced, but one was in excellent shape other than where the previous owner had allowed a leaking faucet to drain back against the splash board ... rotting it & ultimately the sill. Damaged area was relatively small and the task of replacing it was going to be fairly arduous. As much as possible, I removed the spongy wood and injected a thin epoxy product into the surrounding area and then after it cured used another epoxy filler type material (these came as a set). My test for it was: will it hold a nail and/or a screw? As Kevin in NJ mentioned. The answer was yes, it would.

Big difference was the sill, though load bearing, was stationary, and NOT in a moving vehicle. Also, I could span the damaged area with a steel plate and put a concrete pier under it. As Dick Carne stated, it depends what the OP wants to do with the car, as to how it should be approached.

Bud, good luck with this.