The Ford Barn

Terry, NJ · 02-10-2024, 04:27 PM

OK, Hope you all can recall when I was changing gear ratios to 3.54. Maybe not. It was my second try at that and maybe the first came out so well that I got cocky and figured, ah what can go wrong? I've got this licked! And went ahead and screwed it up. "Pride goeth before a fall!" So anyway, I had the driveline all connected and the brakes were loose enough (no bind there). I thought it was with transmission, two gears at once! Any way you figured it, she was jammed tight! It's pretty much boiled down (for me anyway) to a jammed ring gear or a locked up pinion. Any suggestions?

Terry

nkaminar · 02-10-2024, 04:33 PM

Play it again Sam.

Jim/GA · 02-10-2024, 04:53 PM

Sorry to hear that, Terry.

It is possible that you put too much preload on the pinion bearings. It really does not need to be much, just enough to take all the slack out of the system.

If that's what it is, you are lucky you caught it. I know a guy who drove it like that and he totally smoked the pinion bearings.

A guy near me replaced his pinion bearings, ring and pinion gears a few months ago. He was not paying attention and accidentally installed the ring gear in the housing on the wrong side of the pinion gear. Only after he got it all together and "driving" did he discover that the car went forward when the transmission was in reverse, and all 3 forward gears propelled him backwards. He had to take it all apart to reverse the ring gear carrier...

Joe K · 02-10-2024, 07:03 PM

You have probably seen it, but Tom Endy's Rear End article is "the book" on how to set up a rear end right. Seen at http://www.santaanitaas.org/wp-conte...vised-2014.pdf

There are other Tom articles, including some addenda/pix related to the above, seen on the list at https://www.santaanitaas.org/tom-endys-tech-articles/

Joe K

Marshall V. Daut · 02-10-2024, 08:13 PM

"Only after he got it all together and "driving" did he discover that the car went forward when the transmission was in reverse, and all 3 forward gears propelled him backwards."

As a publicity stunt in 1928 to advertise new Fords - and again in the mid-1960's to draw attention to an upcoming MAFCA Model A convention - a team of two guys drove across the USA BACKWARDS in roadsters, the first trip in a 1928 Roadster and the second in a 1931 DeLuxe Roadster! Their progress in both instances was documented by local newspapers in the towns they passed through. The more recent trip's progress also appeared on TV news shows. These trips took place before the interstate network was completed, so you can imagine driving almost 3000 miles in reverse on two lane highways and through every Podunk Center town in each state! How'd they do it? The same way many restorers "rebuilt" their Model A rear ends by putting the ring gear and axles in the wrong axle housing. So, they had three speeds in reverse. Only, these guys WANTED the rear end that way.

The stories of both trips appeared in a couple back issues of "The Restorer". I'm too lazy to go through the hundreds of magazines on my bookshelves to find these stories, so you'll just have to take my word for it that these trips did take place - backwards.
Marshall

bobbader · 02-10-2024, 08:27 PM

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More information needed.

Did it jam after driving? Or, was it this way as soon as you tried to move it?

If it jammed after driving, yes, suspect the pinion bearings might be too tight.
If it jammed before even being able to move it, I'd wonder if, somewhere in the process you had the shift tower off and, when it was reinstalled one of the gears moved out of the way of engaging the shift fork and jammed the transmission.

Rob Doe · 02-11-2024, 11:41 AM

X2 on Mr. Bader's comments.

I recently went through the drive train on our 31 coupe. It was my first time to do this. Luckily, I checked the work done forward of the u-joint before moving on to install the rebuilt rear end with all new bearings and a 3:54 set of gears. This work included all new transmission parts. On my first attempt to reinstall the shift tower I distinctly remember leaning far down to watch the forks seat. Yet somehow, they were not seated correctly and things did not work well for sure.

This was after a previous adrenaline rush. I had installed a new ring gear and original style Bendix. I had cleaned the paint from the starter flange and the flywheel housing and coated with a light coat of carbonized grease. With the tower still removed from the transmission, I removed the cardboard cover and poured in a bit of W600 for the larger bearings and gears to mesh. I then just touched the starter to make certain the bendix and ring gear meshed and the starter was strong.

A day or so later, I started to install the shift tower and WHAT THE HXXX! The forward slider was behind second gear. It was on the same side as the rear slider!!!

First attempts to move the slider back through second did not work. After a second adrenaline rush and visions of having to remove and disassemble the transmission again, I got the hand crank out and just bumped it a bit, multiple times until I could slide the forward slider through second and back into position. Whew, that was a close one!

For the non professional, the devil is always in the details.

02-10-2024, 04:27 PM	#1
Terry, NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks Co, Pa Posts: 3,740	Rear end remorse OK, Hope you all can recall when I was changing gear ratios to 3.54. Maybe not. It was my second try at that and maybe the first came out so well that I got cocky and figured, ah what can go wrong? I've got this licked! And went ahead and screwed it up. "Pride goeth before a fall!" So anyway, I had the driveline all connected and the brakes were loose enough (no bind there). I thought it was with transmission, two gears at once! Any way you figured it, she was jammed tight! It's pretty much boiled down (for me anyway) to a jammed ring gear or a locked up pinion. Any suggestions? Terry

02-10-2024, 04:33 PM	#2
nkaminar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 3,900	Re: Rear end remorse Play it again Sam. __________________ A is for apple, green as the sky. Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die. Forget the brakes, they really don't work. The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk. My car grows red hair, and flies through the air. Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.

02-10-2024, 04:53 PM	#3
Jim/GA Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Young Harris, GA Posts: 1,821	Re: Rear end remorse Sorry to hear that, Terry. It is possible that you put too much preload on the pinion bearings. It really does not need to be much, just enough to take all the slack out of the system. If that's what it is, you are lucky you caught it. I know a guy who drove it like that and he totally smoked the pinion bearings. A guy near me replaced his pinion bearings, ring and pinion gears a few months ago. He was not paying attention and accidentally installed the ring gear in the housing on the wrong side of the pinion gear. Only after he got it all together and "driving" did he discover that the car went forward when the transmission was in reverse, and all 3 forward gears propelled him backwards. He had to take it all apart to reverse the ring gear carrier... __________________ Jim Cannon Former MAFCA Technical Director "Have a Model A day!"

02-10-2024, 07:03 PM	#4
Joe K Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Cow Hampshire Posts: 4,188	Re: Rear end remorse You have probably seen it, but Tom Endy's Rear End article is "the book" on how to set up a rear end right. Seen at http://www.santaanitaas.org/wp-conte...vised-2014.pdf There are other Tom articles, including some addenda/pix related to the above, seen on the list at https://www.santaanitaas.org/tom-endys-tech-articles/ Joe K __________________ Shudda kept the horse.

02-10-2024, 08:13 PM	#5
Marshall V. Daut Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Davenport, Iowa Posts: 2,112	Re: Rear end remorse "Only after he got it all together and "driving" did he discover that the car went forward when the transmission was in reverse, and all 3 forward gears propelled him backwards." As a publicity stunt in 1928 to advertise new Fords - and again in the mid-1960's to draw attention to an upcoming MAFCA Model A convention - a team of two guys drove across the USA BACKWARDS in roadsters, the first trip in a 1928 Roadster and the second in a 1931 DeLuxe Roadster! Their progress in both instances was documented by local newspapers in the towns they passed through. The more recent trip's progress also appeared on TV news shows. These trips took place before the interstate network was completed, so you can imagine driving almost 3000 miles in reverse on two lane highways and through every Podunk Center town in each state! How'd they do it? The same way many restorers "rebuilt" their Model A rear ends by putting the ring gear and axles in the wrong axle housing. So, they had three speeds in reverse. Only, these guys WANTED the rear end that way. The stories of both trips appeared in a couple back issues of "The Restorer". I'm too lazy to go through the hundreds of magazines on my bookshelves to find these stories, so you'll just have to take my word for it that these trips did take place - backwards. Marshall

02-10-2024, 08:27 PM	#6
bobbader Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Huntington, NY Posts: 271	Re: Rear end remorse Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) More information needed. Did it jam after driving? Or, was it this way as soon as you tried to move it? If it jammed after driving, yes, suspect the pinion bearings might be too tight. If it jammed before even being able to move it, I'd wonder if, somewhere in the process you had the shift tower off and, when it was reinstalled one of the gears moved out of the way of engaging the shift fork and jammed the transmission.

02-11-2024, 11:41 AM	#7
Rob Doe Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2021 Location: Central Illinois Posts: 494	Re: Rear end remorse X2 on Mr. Bader's comments. I recently went through the drive train on our 31 coupe. It was my first time to do this. Luckily, I checked the work done forward of the u-joint before moving on to install the rebuilt rear end with all new bearings and a 3:54 set of gears. This work included all new transmission parts. On my first attempt to reinstall the shift tower I distinctly remember leaning far down to watch the forks seat. Yet somehow, they were not seated correctly and things did not work well for sure. This was after a previous adrenaline rush. I had installed a new ring gear and original style Bendix. I had cleaned the paint from the starter flange and the flywheel housing and coated with a light coat of carbonized grease. With the tower still removed from the transmission, I removed the cardboard cover and poured in a bit of W600 for the larger bearings and gears to mesh. I then just touched the starter to make certain the bendix and ring gear meshed and the starter was strong. A day or so later, I started to install the shift tower and WHAT THE HXXX! The forward slider was behind second gear. It was on the same side as the rear slider!!! First attempts to move the slider back through second did not work. After a second adrenaline rush and visions of having to remove and disassemble the transmission again, I got the hand crank out and just bumped it a bit, multiple times until I could slide the forward slider through second and back into position. Whew, that was a close one! For the non professional, the devil is always in the details. __________________ "It ain't what you know for certain that gets ya in trouble. It's what ya know for certain that just ain't so!" Last edited by Rob Doe; 02-11-2024 at 12:26 PM.