Model "A" Reliability

[Bob Bidonde]

I marvel at the design of the Model "A," especially some of its parts that are without a doubt its most reliable assets. However, the Model "A" has parts that are poor designs, and should be modernized for reliable touring.
I include the starter Bendix drive, the universal joint, the cooling fan, the water pump, the rear running & brake lights, the headlights, plate glass windows, the windshield wiper motor, the engine's valves & guides, service brake release / return springs, brake drums, the tool kit & jack, and all lubricants.
What say you who regularly drive your Model "A"?

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by Bob Bidonde

I marvel at the design of the Model "A," especially some of its parts that are without a doubt its most reliable assets. However, the Model "A" has parts that are poor designs, and should be modernized for reliable touring.
I include the starter Bendix drive, the universal joint, the cooling fan, the water pump, the rear running & brake lights, the headlights, plate glass windows, the windshield wiper motor, the engine's valves & guides, service brake release / return springs, brake drums, the tool kit & jack, and all lubricants.
What say you who regularly drive your Model "A"?

I would modify some of the wiring and include a main shut off switch and fuses and/or circuit breakers for protection.

My fuse box hidden under gas tank. I used the 2 top junction box screws to mount it.

[Joe K]

Ford did improve certain aspects as he went along.

A "modern" universal joint came in late in 1929. To bring this to modern standards only requires addition of "seals" on each of the pivots.

The starter bendix HAS been sensibly improved since Ford attempted an upgrade.

The water pump HAS been benefited post Model A era by incorporation of the same seal technology used by Ford in the V8.

The steering box WAS upgraded by Ford (two tooth), but some improvement remained for later. Hence the popularity of Vega and Gross versions.

Even those nylonoid tie rod end cups are an "improvement." But you have to define improvement.

I think no matter where you "fix" a design, it can be improved somewhere-somehow.

We've just had 90 years to think on it. And refer to the "improvement history."

Joe K

[Rob Doe]

Mr. Bidonde, post #1,



What starter bendix drive are you using, what source? My flywheel is on the bench awaiting a new ring gear and bendix.

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by Rob Doe

Mr. Bidonde, post #1,



What starter bendix drive are you using, what source? My flywheel is on the bench awaiting a new ring gear and bendix.

There will be those who will tell you that the modern style Bendix is better. I won't. They don't fully engage the ring gear and so they wear the teeth on the ring gear where they do make contact quite quickly.
I have thrown away more of those than I care to count. New is not necessarily better.

[Kurt in NJ]

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I have 40 years on a stock drive that came out of the trash, used new bolts and locks, have used the starter to drive the car out of the garage, when the clutch was stuck I used the starter to start in gear (don’t need the clutch once moving to shift), been reliable for me. Anyway a starter failure is not much of a problem with how easily hand cranking works—- Doesn’t the modern drive complicate starter removal?

Most modifications are not needed if true restoration to original specifications is done.

Even the water pump in my experience the stock one leaks less and less through the years, made it with used parts leftover from a leakless conversion— that guy has changed his “leakless “ pump 2 more times

The reliability of the original model A is that it can be adjusted, fixes along side of the road.
Modern cars go quite far, they have a different reliability but when they break they have to be towed to be fixed at a shop.

Do all these “modern improvements “ actually make the car more reliable than a car mechanically restored to all original tolerances and specifications or does it become a old car that has to be towed?

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by Kurt in NJ

Most modifications are not needed if true restoration to original specifications is done.

Even the water pump in my experience the stock one leaks less and less through the years, made it with used parts leftover from a leakless conversion— that guy has changed his “leakless “ pump 2 more times

The reliability of the original model A is that it can be adjusted, fixes along side of the road.

Do all these “modern improvements “ actually make the car more reliable than a car mechanically restored to all original tolerances and specifications or does it become a old car that has to be towed?

True what you say, but how many Model A's are "restored to all original tolerances and specifications". Some of the items Bob mentioned are more for safety, like better lighting, window glass, etc.

Personally, I would rather not be on a tour when someones wiring has a meltdown because the wires have no protection (fuses). That's pretty difficult to fix on the side of the road.

[Gene F]

We were on a day trip once, and one of our club members had an issue with the starter. We pushed him, and he slipped the clutch. Took right off.

[Gene F]

Originally Posted by Y-Blockhead

I would modify some of the wiring and include a main shut off switch and fuses and/or circuit breakers for protection.

My fuse box hidden under gas tank. I used the 2 top junction box screws to mount it.

Where did you get that? How long did it take you to basically rewire the car, and did it come with a wiring diagram? Any additional circuits available? (I have an electric wiper)

[Curtis in MA]

I used an A-plate from Brattons for fuses.

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by Gene F

Where did you get that? How long did it take you to basically rewire the car, and did it come with a wiring diagram? Any additional circuits available? (I have an electric wiper)

I got the fuse box off Amazon.com, ~ $10. (Probably higher now, it has been on there for years.

Wiring easy. Power in from AMP gauge, out to accessory. I have wipers, USB charge port, turn signals, brake lights, fog lights and ignition fused. Headlights have a 20 amp circuit breaker mounted by the alternator. Main 30 amp circuit breaker on the stater.

This all came about when one of my headlights shorted inside the shell... at night. No lights + busy highway = scared navigator (Wife).

Also rewired ignition so switch is before coil (so coil in not hot all the time).

[Gene F]

Hmmmm

Thanks

So the feed for the fuse panel is the bottom wire coming in? It comes right off the Generator?

Horn?

[Clem Clement]

Originally Posted by Bob Bidonde

I marvel at the design of the Model "A," especially some of its parts that are without a doubt its most reliable assets. However, the Model "A" has parts that are poor designs, and should be modernized for reliable touring.
I include the starter Bendix drive, the universal joint, the cooling fan, the water pump, the rear running & brake lights, the headlights, plate glass windows, the windshield wiper motor, the engine's valves & guides, service brake release / return springs, brake drums, the tool kit & jack, and all lubricants.
What say you who regularly drive your Model "A"?

Bob,
Good hearing from you. Smokey went to another club member. Son got the 40 Merc 4dor convert and a neighbor got the '39 ford pickup. I miss them all. We have moved into Ashby Ponds Senior community Center. Loving it: No more cookin for Ms. Sandy!!

You might add "loose nut on the Steering wheel to your great list."
clem!

[nkaminar]

I consider my Model A very reliable, but still carry tools and spares. I don't hesitate driving it anywhere.

1. Quality points and condensor
2. Burtz engine with modern valves and guides, and all new parts
3. Engine has full flow oil filter
4. Leakless water pump, of good quality
5. New alternator
6. Headlight sockets replaced by individual sockets and pins internal in the headlight buckets
7. New radial tires
8. Rebuilt brakes with Flat Head Ted kits
9. Modern Bendix (no indication of incomplete engagement on ring gear, but may be a different version that the one Synchro had trouble with)
10. F-100 steering box, rebuilt
11. All worn chassis parts have been replaced and car is regularly greased
12. The car is maintained
13. Fuse box for accessories and main fuse is a resetting circuit breaker
14. Clean fuel system with stock sediment bowl
15. Crimp connectors replacement for old style connectors and crimped with ratchet type crimper

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by Gene F

Hmmmm

Thanks

So the feed for the fuse panel is the bottom wire coming in? It comes right off the Generator?

Horn?

Yes, wired basically as original coming off of the ammeter except with the fuse box in the middle. I do have a PowerGen alternator also (the one that looks like a generator).

[California Travieso]

Logo Lites (logolites.com) also has a fuse box call “A Plate”. It’s pricy but it has a lot of features in addition to fuses.

David Serrano

[Bob Bidonde]

Rob Doe, the modern starter drive can be purchased from Bratton's PN 15961, Synder's PN A-11350-M, Bert's PN A-11350-U, and from other dealers. Be sure it is the modern starter drive made in the USA.
Hi Clem! I am glad you are having a good life, and I wish you well. May God bless you and Ms Sandy. I am confident you have passed Smokey to a good new home.

Re issues with the ring gear, I have been running 12V with modern starter drives in both of my Model A's for many many miles. The starters are stock. There are no issues with either the ring gears or the starters in either car as some have claimed. Also, no more broken Bendix bolts and springs to be concerned about.
Both of my Model "A's" have battery cutoff switches that I think are excellent safety features. I do not have any fuses in my cars yet, but fusses are on my "To Do List."

[Sunny the Model A]

I daily my 31 Pickup, and as far as modifications go, I don't believe in all the new-fangled stuff. Only mods from new are: three core rad, six blade fan, thermostat for fuel efficiency, oil filter, and an led third brake light. that concludes modifications. all other components are as Henry made 'em. I am a firm believer that if one gets the car closer to how it was set up at the factory, the better it will run and it will be reliable. Cooling is the most important thing to me to upgrade considering the fact that we sit in traffic a lot more than back then and most like to drive their cars hard. I added the six blade fan to increase cooling at idle and the thermostat to get better fuel economy. I am happily reporting 18 mpg stop and go traffic and 20-21 mpg on a steady 45 mph.

[vic]

Sunny the model A,,,my thoughts exactly.....the model A is what it is....enjoy the"
"Model A Experience "

[700rpm]

Bob, I offer you a quote from Alexis Zorba (Zorba the Greek):
"You think too much. That is your trouble. Clever people and grocers, they weigh everything."