The Ford Barn

Mike B · 02-20-2015, 05:36 PM

I was going to put in an electrical sending unit in today, the remnants of the capillary one had been snipped before I got the engine...so I unscrewed the remnant...and am left with the pic shown below...my thoughts are to use a small punch and tap it down some to break free and rust that is holding it in place..then grab it with a pair of dykes and try to pull it out.

I could move the wiring/etc away, and heat the area up with a welding tip...

But...here's my concerns if I tap it down to free it up...if I tap to far..will it fall into the block?

Rather not pull the head, as I don't have another gasket available, but it may come to that I guess?

Thanks in advance.

Bruce Lancaster · 02-20-2015, 05:40 PM

I've got a KR Wilson Pusher tool that curves into the hose opening and pushes up on the bulb as it is tightened...but I'm not willing to entrust an irreplaceabe tool to the mail. Maybe someone out thataway has one.
Perhaps you can run a tap into the remainder and pull from the tap or with a piece of threaded rod as a slide hammer...

Gary in La. · 02-20-2015, 05:47 PM

Tapping it down is not going to work as there is a small lip inside the head at the bottom of the threads. The bulb seated against it. The later heads with the electric probe had threads all the way down the bore.

Mike B · 02-20-2015, 05:49 PM

That might be an option Bruce...looks like I'd have to drill it off center..gonna go grab my mirror and see what it looks like in there..and suck up the PB blaster as well

But, if you'd be able to take a pic of your tool and post it here, it woud be much appreciated, and give me an idea or two, maybe.

Thanks

Mike B · 02-20-2015, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary in La.

Tapping it down is not going to work as there is a small lip inside the head at the bottom of the threads. The bulb seated against it. The later heads with the electric probe had threads all the way down the bore.

I have the threaded portion out...I might mention this is off a Ford Pilot engine, circa 47 or so...but the threaded part came out easily, but seems the "bulb" is stuck in the head.

Looks like Bruce's Idea of drilling and slide hammer might be the way to go here...worst case I have to pull the head...but gota try something before hand.

Thanks

Mike B · 02-20-2015, 06:20 PM

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Here's what I took out, doesn't appear to be NPT threads and ways, as its a compression fit...feeling the head will have to come off, do some drilling/tapping to set me up for a proper sending unit, unless someone has seen this type bfore and was able to convert to electrical?

Brian · 02-20-2015, 06:27 PM

Mike, If you remove the top hose, you'll see the 'bulb' protruding into the water jacket. As previously mentioned, this is seated by screwing down the thread you've already removed. So...the bulb is only 'sealed' in place from being there so long, as you've removed the threaded bit. You should be able to stick a punch or similar down the outlet [from where you've removed the hose] and tap the bulb, and/or lever on it with a screwdriver, etc,- work it sideways a bit to break the seal and it should come up and out.

Mike B · 02-20-2015, 06:29 PM

Awesome Brian!

Now I see what Bruce meant!

Heading back out while I still have daylight, thanks!

Kube · 02-20-2015, 06:47 PM

You can tap it IN to the head and pull it out of the water (hose) outlet. been there, done that.

Mike B · 02-20-2015, 07:19 PM

Got things apart and can see the bulb, so will try some persuasion on it.. Issue I have to drill while in place, I don't have a right angle drill anymore...kinda mocked up my smallest 3/8th drill and do not hink I can get a very straight shot at it due to the firewall, I may whack a drill bit off and look at things again later, but going to try the persuasion route first.

Thanks

trainguy · 02-20-2015, 07:42 PM

I would drill a hole for a #10 self tapping screw at the top end and pull it with a slide hammer.Phil

Mike B · 02-20-2015, 08:42 PM

Well, no joy yet I'll try to drill it and tap it and pull it out...but pretty sure I'll be drilling on an angle and pulling it from the same.

One way or another, tomorrow I'l have it done...well..sans a head gasket if it comes to that

trainguy · 02-20-2015, 08:56 PM

May come out easier than you think,just held in by rust and crud! Phil

Mike B · 02-20-2015, 10:09 PM

Yes Phil, tried heat and cool...but not budging from behind hopefully I be able to pull it tomorrow!

Thanks.

nospartsman · 02-20-2015, 10:30 PM

KR Wilson made a tool for that.

Mike B · 02-20-2015, 11:39 PM

Must be the tool Bruce was speaking of?

Thanks for the pics!

Mike B · 02-20-2015, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kube

You can tap it IN to the head and pull it out of the water (hose) outlet. been there, done that.

I tried tapping it in, but sounds and feels like I am seating a bearing, super solid.

Kerk · 02-21-2015, 06:46 AM

Try some Kroil and wait a bit and then try tapping it any way you can to break the seal. Maybe some heat with a small pencil tip torch and repear the Kroil trearment. Take some time to let it work. jms kx

BILL WZOREK · 02-21-2015, 06:54 AM

What about heating and using wax to wick down in as many here have used this process to remove frozen / rusted bolts & studs >>>

Mart · 02-21-2015, 07:13 AM

The threads are 5/8 UNF in a Pilot head.

If you can see the end of the bulb inside, can you just wobble it a bit to get it moving, then push from below while pulling from above. If all else fails, you could just run a drill through it and remove the remnants. The hole in the head does have a seat, Someone may be able to give the diameter. It's between 3/8 and 7/16 from memory.

Mart

Mike B · 02-21-2015, 12:02 PM

Well "most" of it is out, seems I pried a bit to hard on the bulb, it's in the head somewhere, but was able to get the rest of it out..off to find my small inspection mirror and see if I can spot it and get it out.

Will probably still pull the head anyways to drill and tap it for NPT for the sending unit, oh well, didn't have much planned this weekend anyways

Thanks all.

Mart · 02-21-2015, 12:12 PM

You ought to be able to get a 5/8 unf to NPT brass adaptor that should do the trick.

Mike B · 02-21-2015, 12:19 PM

I'll have to measure ..I pulled the "plug" on the other side of the water outlet, and it's larger..the temp sensor would actually fit there, but is already going to be a tad to large due to being straight threads.

In order to put the Sender I have (from the 59 block) I'd have to open up the hole anyways, as the bulb on it won't fit in the hole.

Jack E/NJ · 02-21-2015, 12:43 PM

>>>>In order to put the Sender I have (from the 59 block) I'd have to open up the hole anyways, as the bulb on it won't fit in the hole. >>>>

Don't do that. Go to Amazon and get the smaller one that'll fit. Less than $10 with free shipping.

http://www.amazon.com/Equus-9835-Ele...erature+sender

Jack E/NJ

Mike B · 02-21-2015, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack E/NJ

>>>>In order to put the Sender I have (from the 59 block) I'd have to open up the hole anyways, as the bulb on it won't fit in the hole. >>>>

Don't do that. Go to Amazon and get the smaller one that'll fit. Less than $10 with free shipping.

http://www.amazon.com/Equus-9835-Ele...erature+sender

Jack E/NJ

Awesome Jack, and it's compatible with the stock Ford gauge?

Bruce Lancaster · 02-23-2015, 02:57 PM

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That's the tool...little notch in the short arm goes over the tube, longer arm has two cups (One for 60, one for 221/239) to push.
Too damn complicated to make, but how about heating a small tire iron and bending in a couple of curves?
There is Ford adaptor, I think reproduced now, that fits into 1940-53 threads and accepts bulb from earlier cars. It MAY (or may not) be the same as the easily found modern mechanical temp gauge to 3/8 pipe adaptor available from SW and every other aftermarket gauge place.

Bruce Lancaster · 02-23-2015, 04:22 PM

I put one of those tools out on my table at Hershey as a Quiz...I had a '39 gauge and a cylinder head next to it, and a note pointing out that clues were right at hand. No one could figure out what the thing is for...it has a sort of alternate universe look to it.

02-20-2015, 05:40 PM	#2
Bruce Lancaster Member Emeritus Join Date: May 2010 Location: Madison, NJ Posts: 5,230	Re: Need ideas to get the rest of this temp sending unit out of the head I've got a KR Wilson Pusher tool that curves into the hose opening and pushes up on the bulb as it is tightened...but I'm not willing to entrust an irreplaceabe tool to the mail. Maybe someone out thataway has one. Perhaps you can run a tap into the remainder and pull from the tap or with a piece of threaded rod as a slide hammer...

02-20-2015, 05:47 PM	#3
Gary in La. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Louisiana Posts: 866	Re: Need ideas to get the rest of this temp sending unit out of the head Tapping it down is not going to work as there is a small lip inside the head at the bottom of the threads. The bulb seated against it. The later heads with the electric probe had threads all the way down the bore.

02-20-2015, 05:49 PM	#4
Mike B Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oakdale,Ca Posts: 1,323	Re: Need ideas to get the rest of this temp sending unit out of the head That might be an option Bruce...looks like I'd have to drill it off center..gonna go grab my mirror and see what it looks like in there..and suck up the PB blaster as well But, if you'd be able to take a pic of your tool and post it here, it woud be much appreciated, and give me an idea or two, maybe. Thanks

02-20-2015, 06:27 PM	#7
Brian Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Masterton, New Zealand Posts: 3,834	Re: Need ideas to get the rest of this temp sending unit out of the head Mike, If you remove the top hose, you'll see the 'bulb' protruding into the water jacket. As previously mentioned, this is seated by screwing down the thread you've already removed. So...the bulb is only 'sealed' in place from being there so long, as you've removed the threaded bit. You should be able to stick a punch or similar down the outlet [from where you've removed the hose] and tap the bulb, and/or lever on it with a screwdriver, etc,- work it sideways a bit to break the seal and it should come up and out. __________________ Unfortunately, two half wits don't make a whole wit!

02-20-2015, 06:29 PM	#8
Mike B Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oakdale,Ca Posts: 1,323	Re: Need ideas to get the rest of this temp sending unit out of the head Awesome Brian! Now I see what Bruce meant! Heading back out while I still have daylight, thanks!

02-20-2015, 06:47 PM	#9
Kube Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Wisconsin, USA Posts: 9,007	Re: Need ideas to get the rest of this temp sending unit out of the head You can tap it IN to the head and pull it out of the water (hose) outlet. been there, done that. __________________ "I can explain it for you. However, I can't understand it for you".

02-20-2015, 07:19 PM	#10
Mike B Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oakdale,Ca Posts: 1,323	Re: Need ideas to get the rest of this temp sending unit out of the head Got things apart and can see the bulb, so will try some persuasion on it.. Issue I have to drill while in place, I don't have a right angle drill anymore...kinda mocked up my smallest 3/8th drill and do not hink I can get a very straight shot at it due to the firewall, I may whack a drill bit off and look at things again later, but going to try the persuasion route first. Thanks

02-20-2015, 07:42 PM	#11
trainguy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Lehighton Pa Posts: 1,085	Re: Need ideas to get the rest of this temp sending unit out of the head I would drill a hole for a #10 self tapping screw at the top end and pull it with a slide hammer.Phil

02-20-2015, 08:42 PM	#12
Mike B Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oakdale,Ca Posts: 1,323	Re: Need ideas to get the rest of this temp sending unit out of the head Well, no joy yet I'll try to drill it and tap it and pull it out...but pretty sure I'll be drilling on an angle and pulling it from the same. One way or another, tomorrow I'l have it done...well..sans a head gasket if it comes to that

02-20-2015, 08:56 PM	#13
trainguy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Lehighton Pa Posts: 1,085	Re: Need ideas to get the rest of this temp sending unit out of the head May come out easier than you think,just held in by rust and crud! Phil

02-20-2015, 10:09 PM	#14
Mike B Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oakdale,Ca Posts: 1,323	Re: Need ideas to get the rest of this temp sending unit out of the head Yes Phil, tried heat and cool...but not budging from behind hopefully I be able to pull it tomorrow! Thanks.

02-20-2015, 11:39 PM	#16
Mike B Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oakdale,Ca Posts: 1,323	Re: Need ideas to get the rest of this temp sending unit out of the head Must be the tool Bruce was speaking of? Thanks for the pics!

02-21-2015, 06:46 AM	#18
Kerk Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 642	Re: Need ideas to get the rest of this temp sending unit out of the head Try some Kroil and wait a bit and then try tapping it any way you can to break the seal. Maybe some heat with a small pencil tip torch and repear the Kroil trearment. Take some time to let it work. jms kx

02-21-2015, 06:54 AM	#19
BILL WZOREK Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Florence Ma. Posts: 2,404	Re: Need ideas to get the rest of this temp sending unit out of the head What about heating and using wax to wick down in as many here have used this process to remove frozen / rusted bolts & studs >>>

02-21-2015, 07:13 AM	#20
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,754	Re: Need ideas to get the rest of this temp sending unit out of the head The threads are 5/8 UNF in a Pilot head. If you can see the end of the bulb inside, can you just wobble it a bit to get it moving, then push from below while pulling from above. If all else fails, you could just run a drill through it and remove the remnants. The hole in the head does have a seat, Someone may be able to give the diameter. It's between 3/8 and 7/16 from memory. Mart

02-21-2015, 12:02 PM	#21
Mike B Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oakdale,Ca Posts: 1,323	Re: Need ideas to get the rest of this temp sending unit out of the head Well "most" of it is out, seems I pried a bit to hard on the bulb, it's in the head somewhere, but was able to get the rest of it out..off to find my small inspection mirror and see if I can spot it and get it out. Will probably still pull the head anyways to drill and tap it for NPT for the sending unit, oh well, didn't have much planned this weekend anyways Thanks all.

02-21-2015, 12:12 PM	#22
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,754	Re: Need ideas to get the rest of this temp sending unit out of the head You ought to be able to get a 5/8 unf to NPT brass adaptor that should do the trick.

02-21-2015, 12:19 PM	#23
Mike B Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oakdale,Ca Posts: 1,323	Re: Need ideas to get the rest of this temp sending unit out of the head I'll have to measure ..I pulled the "plug" on the other side of the water outlet, and it's larger..the temp sensor would actually fit there, but is already going to be a tad to large due to being straight threads. In order to put the Sender I have (from the 59 block) I'd have to open up the hole anyways, as the bulb on it won't fit in the hole.

02-21-2015, 12:43 PM	#24
Jack E/NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,173	Re: Need ideas to get the rest of this temp sending unit out of the head >>>>In order to put the Sender I have (from the 59 block) I'd have to open up the hole anyways, as the bulb on it won't fit in the hole. >>>> Don't do that. Go to Amazon and get the smaller one that'll fit. Less than $10 with free shipping. http://www.amazon.com/Equus-9835-Ele...erature+sender Jack E/NJ

02-23-2015, 02:57 PM	#26
Bruce Lancaster Member Emeritus Join Date: May 2010 Location: Madison, NJ Posts: 5,230	Re: Need ideas to get the rest of this temp sending unit out of the head Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) That's the tool...little notch in the short arm goes over the tube, longer arm has two cups (One for 60, one for 221/239) to push. Too damn complicated to make, but how about heating a small tire iron and bending in a couple of curves? There is Ford adaptor, I think reproduced now, that fits into 1940-53 threads and accepts bulb from earlier cars. It MAY (or may not) be the same as the easily found modern mechanical temp gauge to 3/8 pipe adaptor available from SW and every other aftermarket gauge place.

02-23-2015, 04:22 PM	#27
Bruce Lancaster Member Emeritus Join Date: May 2010 Location: Madison, NJ Posts: 5,230	Re: Need ideas to get the rest of this temp sending unit out of the head I put one of those tools out on my table at Hershey as a Quiz...I had a '39 gauge and a cylinder head next to it, and a note pointing out that clues were right at hand. No one could figure out what the thing is for...it has a sort of alternate universe look to it.