New block update 3.

[Mike V. Florida]

This seems to be the year of the new old engines. There is a group that just finished casting and machining a 1918 Engine.

[Tod]

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

This seems to be the year of the new old engines. There is a group that just finished casting and machining a 1918 Engine.

A year or so ago I finished up my part of making an old Roberts Aircraft engine. I saw videos of it started up. It was pretty awesome.

Tod

[Tod]

This morning, before lunch, and taking the rest of the day off to relax a little on a beautiful NE Ohio day (do some yard work and maybe go out to Quaker City Dragstrip) I machined the back of the block and bolted on a flywheel housing. Looks pretty good. Aside from an oil pan, it is sitting in my Seiki with everything bolted on all the way around. I have the special-made fixture pieces in house now and can finish up the 2 fixtures those go to, which will allow me to turn the block over and finish up the bottom.

I didn't take more pics because when I went to take the first one the batteries were dead. So I said, "good place to stop," and came home. I hope everyone has a good holiday weekend and thanks to all you veterans, alive and passed on!

Tod

[huddy]

Have you ever done a 3-cylinder Zekeley radial? Years ago, a good friend was trying to rebuild one for a 1920's vintage single seat monoplane. He was unable to use the original cylinder heads because the skirts were cracked with missing pieces. He ended up selling all the parts to a local enthusiast who somehow rebuilt it all, but he was unable to fly it (6-7, 260) and couldn't find anyone else who felt brave enough. I've seen it run on the ground & taxi, though.

[Tod]

Originally Posted by huddy

Have you ever done a 3-cylinder Zekeley radial? Years ago, a good friend was trying to rebuild one for a 1920's vintage single seat monoplane. He was unable to use the original cylinder heads because the skirts were cracked with missing pieces. He ended up selling all the parts to a local enthusiast who somehow rebuilt it all, but he was unable to fly it (6-7, 260) and couldn't find anyone else who felt brave enough. I've seen it run on the ground & taxi, though.

I've seen them but never worked with one.

[huddy]

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Zekeleys were notorious for flinging cylinder heads, as their mounting flanges were squared off and not chamfered, with insufficient material. This would cause a terrible imbalance and most likely an uncontrollable situation (the engine had a good chance of tearing off the fuselage). Thus, you will see Zekeleys with three stainless steel cables fastened between cylinders, each bolted to the head bolts, to keep the broken cylinder from departing. It also has external valves and rockers, with provision for manually lubricating them. My friend told me the MTBF was about 20 hrs. This might explain why nobody wants to fly the restored airplane...

[Mike V. Florida]

I've seen a Szekely at the Rheinbeck Aerodrome in NY. Beverly Dodge and a passenger set the women’s altitude record (16, 800′) in 1937 in a Szekely powered Taylor H-2.

[roccaas]

What changes/improvements have you designed in that are above and beyond, but different from what Henry and Edsel had in the original motor? Obviously the steel can be better, but are there design/philosophy changes that they probably would have made with 85 years of experience and billions of engines made worldwide, but weren't evident when the plans were laid down almost 100 years ago?

Fascinating. Please post pics here when you have your masterpiece ready for public consumption!

[Tod]

Originally Posted by roccaas

What changes/improvements have you designed in that are above and beyond, but different from what Henry and Edsel had in the original motor? Obviously the steel can be better, but are there design/philosophy changes that they probably would have made with 85 years of experience and billions of engines made worldwide, but weren't evident when the plans were laid down almost 100 years ago?

Fascinating. Please post pics here when you have your masterpiece ready for public consumption!

My block has pressurized oiling, thicker casting walls, and the capacity for adaptation to stock A babbitt style, insert bearing style, AR cam style, 5 main style, and B crank style. It can be made in aluminum for all of those versions as well as the capacity to alter the waterjacket for no block ports to accommodate the guys that want OHV heads. In short, the variations possible will be determined by the market.

Hope that helps.

Tod

[Fordors]

Thanks for the pictures Tod, your project is coming along nicely and looks like it will be in the marketplace soon. You have certainly covered all the bases with the machining options you have mentioned so there will be something to fill every need. Smart marketing, my hat's off to you and I'm envious too. I wish I had half your knowledge and ambition.

[Tod]

Originally Posted by Fordors

Thanks for the pictures Tod, your project is coming along nicely and looks like it will be in the marketplace soon. You have certainly covered all the bases with the machining options you have mentioned so there will be something to fill every need. Smart marketing, my hat's off to you and I'm envious too. I wish I had half your knowledge and ambition.

Thanks for the interest, and I am happy to let interested people see the progress pics. I am at the shop right now to finish out a couple of things on the block so I can take it out and resume regular production. Before I take it out I will take pics of everything bolted on, except the oil pan. That will leave only the lifter bores, cam and crank journals, oil pump hole, the oil filler hole and dipstick hole. This is pretty close.

Tod

[Tod]

Today I was able to spend some time on the bottom of the block. I bored the lifter bores and began the program to drill and tap all of the bottom holes, which includes the oil pan bolt holes, oil pump hole, and the main cap bolt holes.

I'm heading up to Prus Jr.'s shop in a little while to borrow some lifters to test fit them in the lifter bores. I will post more data tomorrow or Saturday and probably send out some more pictures. I may even add them to the Youtube video.

Tod

[Bob Johnson]

Tod,

I have read through most of your posts on your engine project. I could not find anywhere where you stated where you got the dimensions / specifications for the engine. Did you measure existing blocks? Did you use original Ford blueprints ?

Bob

[colin1928]

Tod Thanks for the up date
Photos and Vid look good
Colin

[Tod]

Originally Posted by Bob Johnson

Tod,

I have read through most of your posts on your engine project. I could not find anywhere where you stated where you got the dimensions / specifications for the engine. Did you measure existing blocks? Did you use original Ford blueprints ?

Bob

Bob,

Look here:

http://fordbarn.com/forum/showthread...769#post877769

Tod

[ericr]

Originally Posted by Tod

My block has pressurized oiling, thicker casting walls, and the capacity for adaptation to stock A babbitt style, insert bearing style, AR cam style, 5 main style, and B crank style. It can be made in aluminum for all of those versions as well as the capacity to alter the waterjacket for no block ports to accommodate the guys that want OHV heads. In short, the variations possible will be determined by the market.

Hope that helps.

Tod

Tod you have likely answered this a thousand times somewhere, and the question probably begs the answer, but here goes....do you feel your engine will run noticeably smoother than many of our rebuilds? Those of us fortunate to have heard an original low-mileage engine are always amazed at how quiet and smooth they are.

[Tod]

Originally Posted by ericr

Tod you have likely answered this a thousand times somewhere, and the question probably begs the answer, but here goes....do you feel your engine will run noticeably smoother than many of our rebuilds? Those of us fortunate to have heard an original low-mileage engine are always amazed at how quiet and smooth they are.

I don't know what to tell you. Since I am not an engine builder I cannot step out and cover all of their work in an all-encompassing answer. Having not had one built yet it remains to be seen just how smooth the builds utilizing my blocks can be. Being that it will be a more stout block, if built to proper specs, I can't imagine a cause for the engine being a worse product. How much more benefit will there be with pressurized oiling to the crank and cam journals? I don't know exactly, but conventional wisdom told me that oiling things better will make for better product.

At this point, I am inclined to tell you that we will have to wait until the first one is running and we make a judgment then.

Tod

[ALAN BENNETT]

Please put me on your list for updates. I am really excited about what you are doing. It looks great [email protected]
Thank you

[Tod]

Well, yesterday didn't go quite as planned. We had a power outage that shut down everything for a couple of hours so I didn't get as much done as I wanted. I did get lifters from Prus Jr. to test fit in the bores and that all looks great. I got the oil pan bolt holes programmed, drilled and tapped and now I can bolt on the last external bolt-on piece. I also cut the main journals to width. There was a tool I wanted to order but found out it would take longer to get than I am willing to wait right now so I ordered material to make it myself. What will take a tool maker months to custom make I figure will take me a day to do myself.

I talked to Prus Jr. Thursday and we discussed building and running this first one. Hopefully good luck continues and I don't run into anything that prevents that plan. The worst thing that can happen is something causes this to be nothing but a display/mock up item. But, seeing that there is very little left to machine I can't see what could present itself this late to ruin the plan.

As a matter of coincidence he brought up something someone else did the very next day in an email. Both people proposed that this first motor be sold at cost or auctioned some way, because someone just might want bragging rights for being the owner of the very first one. But, I'm inclined to just keep it for myself and display it at shows and in the Snyder's show room. I haven't discussed that with Snyder's but I can't imagine it would be a bad thing for anyone. But I'll let Don make that call. I would like to have it displayed at Hershey this fall if nothing else. We'll see how it all works itself out. If I've learned nothing in my 37 years in manufacturing is that you can't force things to happen according to your wishful thinking.

Tod

[tbirdtbird]

Your first one is special!
Don't let it fall into private hands.
Hershey would be awesome!!

These updates are sooooo tantalizing!