what type oil and gas for flathead

[ndrtangman1932]

with all the special additives and lack of engine lub types of oil of today, what is the best oil to use in a flathead to preserve the cam, an what type gas and brand or additives should I use in a flathead?

[mike42]

I have a '40 85 hp and have been using a lead additive plus MMO. In Michigan we have what you call Recreational Fuel. No ethanol. I have started using it since late last summer. Seems to work well. I still add MMO to that fuel. A lot of guys swear by it here.

I have also added STP as it has Zinc in it, but lately I have started using Valvoline racing oil 20w 50. It has zinc already in it. Just did my first oil change with that. I only drive in the Summer and Fall months here.

Mike

[ken ct]

You will get as many opinions on your post as CARTERS have Liver pills. Anything today is 200% better than was availible back then. Take your pick. ken ct.

[ford38v8]

Originally Posted by ken ct

You will get as many opinions on your post as CARTERS have Liver pills. Anything today is 200% better than was availible back then. Take your pick. ken ct.

Ken, I've read a lot of stuff you've advised guys here.
Some I agreed with, some not so much.
This time though, you really done it.
There ain't nobody gonna give this guy a better answer than that.


Have a good Memorial Day and enjoy your BBQ with thanks to a POW/MIA.

[GOW]

what ken said.....

[ken ct]

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Thanks Alan + GOW,sometimes im right and sometimes im wrong,im the fitst to admit it. You guys have a nice Holiday,its been raining here for 2 days now.Need to stop rebuilding for a spell,knee oper. comming up soon. Take care at least i dont type with my knee. LOL ken ct.

[296 V8]

Iv been adding zinc to anything without a roller cam for the last two years

[JM 35 Sedan]

I hate to send you looking...but if you do a search on motor oil you will find lots of opinions. G. M. did some research on oil and made a good report on one of his posts. On gas I use the regular E10 and add MMO to every full tank.

[Ross F-1]

Originally Posted by JM 35 Sedan

I hate to send you looking...but if you do a search on motor oil you will find lots of opinions. G. M. did some research on oil and made a good report on one of his posts. On gas I use the regular E10 and add MMO to every full tank.

This is the GM paper, saved it off another thread on here.

[Ol' Ron]

This could become the longest thread in the history of the Ford barn, except what vic did on his lunch hour.
Considering that the engined was designed back in the late 20's early 30's, I'd say almost all made since then. Philips 66 or Gulf 76 was a hi test gas, works well. I'd stay away fron detergent oils. Depends on the modifications.

[flatjack9]

Why would you stay away from detergent oils? I've been running it in mine for 20 years and the inside of the engine is as clean as the day I built. Don't believe in additives of any kind. There is still some zinc left in the oils, way more than we need.

[Ross F-1]

The only non-detergent oils I've seen aren't SAE-rated, they are for "non-engine" applications.

[Ol' Ron]

Well if you've modified you engine to use a full flow filter, then by all means use detergent oil. If not, then all you do is pump dirty oil through the bearings. Original pils were changed every 1500 2000 miles and kept the engine very clean as well.

[Old Henry]

I don't pay extra for any fancy oils. As has been said, any today are way better than any then. I just get the cheapest detergent oil since my engine uses a quart every 1,000 miles. S.A.E. 40 over 60° starting temperatures and 10W-30 for under that temperature.

Even though we don't have roller lifters, the low valve spring pressures on our stock engines still doesn't need zinc added to what oils still have in them.

The lowest octane gas is still way better than anything 70 years ago. We don't need high octane in our stock low compression engines. I always buy the lowest octane available. I still pay extra for the Top Tier gasolines though as they have more cleaning additives in them. http://www.toptiergas.com/

My 2¢

[rotorwrench]

The old SAE 20W/20 used back in the day had very little additives in it. Detergent properties were likely ashless dispersant and i doubt if there was much of the zink phosphate stuff in there. They didn't start using all that stuff till they had problems with cams in the overhead valve engines in the mid to late 50s.

The flathead engines were designed for all the crud to settle to the bottom of the pan, filter canister housing, and outer walls of the crankpin sludge bores. You dug the crud out when you overhauled the engine a 100,000 miles if it made it that far.

[Cecil/WV]

Back in the 50's, I had a '38 Standard that used a lot of oil and was a kid with no money. Ever heard that before?? Anyway, I got crude oil direct from the well near by in central WV and used it for engine oil. It did real well until the engine blew!

[paul2748]

For another article about ZDDP, go to this:

http://ctci.org/gilsgarage/EngineOil2.php

This study was done by an independent lab to show what various oils contain as far as ZDDP is concerned. The upshot is that the oil used in the 80's contained far less ZDDP than the oils of today. Extrapolate back into the 40's and 50's and you will see that far less ZDDP was in the oil back then.

[Fibber Mcgee]

E85 and don't change your oil but every 5000 miles......Now that I'm done with the governments advice I would say to just use a good oil ( I use Rotella because its $13 a gallon at Walmart and is used by alot of trucks that go 30000 miles between oil changes) and find the gas with the least amount of ethanol you can.

[G.M.]

Read this report on oil and make your own choice after having a little knowledge.
I have several diesels and use 20/40 Valvoline Cummins blue in the old Fords also because of the additives. I used Castrol 20/50 for over 100,000 miles in my 39 for years and that worked. The conclusion on oils was almost any oil changed regularly worked but why not use the best. G.M.

[paul2748]

The problem with this study is that CI-4 oil is probably not attainable any more since most manufacturers have changed to the new CJ-4 formula.

Any name brand oil with a API rating of 40 or more should have all the ZDDP needed for any flathead except the most extreme racing engine.

Originally Posted by G.M.

Read this report on oil and make your own choice after having a little knowledge.
I have several diesels and use 20/40 Valvoline Cummins blue in the old Fords also because of the additives. I used Castrol 20/50 for over 100,000 miles in my 39 for years and that worked. The conclusion on oils was almost any oil changed regularly worked but why not use the best. G.M.

[Lawson Cox]

Originally Posted by ken ct

You will get as many opinions on your post as CARTERS have Liver pills. Anything today is 200% better than was availible back then. Take your pick. ken ct.

Now Ken. You know that "Carters Little Liver Pills" had to be dropped as the F.D.A. said there was nothing in them that did anything to help liver function. So they just dropped the liver and call them Carter's Little Pills. No telling what they claim that the pills are good for. Maybe like Hadacol. LOL

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by G.M.

. . . almost any oil changed regularly worked but why not use the best. G.M.

Why not use oil rated for spark ignition, which flatheads are, instead of oil formulated for compression ignition, which diesels are? Doesn't make sense to me. Gasoline and diesel oils have different additive packages because the contaminants in the crankcase are different. With a gasoline engine you get a lot of moisture and tar and with a diesel the oil becomes acidic and will collect more carbon. It's always best to use an oil specially formulated to the type of engine for optimal life.

You will see things like "API SG or CJ" on the oil container, that means:

API = American Petrolium Industry
SG = Spark ignition (for gasoline engines), grade "G"
CJ = Compression ignition (for diesel engines), grade "J"

The second letter is the grade designator, in alphabetical order, and later = better.

I know I've said all of this before but I will say it again every time someone recommends that oil formulated for diesel engines be used in our flatheads.

[aussie merc]

this has gone around so many times its dizzy 1 OIL a good quality oil is whats needed grade/ brand/viscosity talk to your local supplier as you dont want a 50w in Alaska or a 10 w in Mexico Detergent or mineral to me thats personal and often depends on engine internal condition .2 Fuel you got to remember that leaded didnt exist when they where designed ok alcohol that's different but you can rebuild certain parts with alcohol resistant parts and work well with ethanol fuels LOOK at what you have and choose to your needs and you wont have to much trouble

[HenryCarl]

Originally Posted by Fibber Mcgee

E85 and don't change your oil but every 5000 miles......Now that I'm done with the governments advice I would say to just use a good oil ( I use Rotella because its $13 a gallon at Walmart and is used by alot of trucks that go 30000 miles between oil changes) and find the gas with the least amount of ethanol you can.

Except those that make the products mostly promote their own and what they want from you. Your money. I'm sorry, I forgot Manchin and his own company in W.V. Best to find an .org or those with the experience found here. We just need to get everyone trying the same approaches at the same time and then report. So many opinions. Like "did you buy your car on a Wednesday? That explains why it's a lemon."

[Jacques1960]

My routine is, for gas, non ethanol with MMO and lead substitute. For oil, I roll with Shell Rotella, largely because I have it on hand for diesel machinery, so no particular magic.

[19Fordy]

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Soon synthetic blend oils will be the only oil avaialble, I think.
Straight weight oils are fading away.

[Flathead Fever]

Originally Posted by flatjack9

Why would you stay away from detergent oils? I've been running it in mine for 20 years and the inside of the engine is as clean as the day I built. Don't believe in additives of any kind. There is still some zinc left in the oils, way more than we need.

When I was young working on the my Mustang with an engine full of sludge. My neighbor said whatever you do don't put detergent oil in it because it will break all that stuff loose and plug op your oil pick up screen. He probably was correct. So for years that is the theory I used on detergent versus non-detergent. If he engine was clean inside then I ran detergent and if was full of sludge I ran non-detergent. But then I bought, lawn mower and a pressure washer and both said to "only" use non-detergent 30W oil. That got be wondering, why if its new inside do they want me to use non-detergent oil. I had a hard time finding the answer but here it is. It has to do whether the engine has an oil filter or not. If it has oil filter the detergent keeps the dirt suspended in the oil where it can flow to the filter and be removed. Without an oil filter you don't want the dirt flowing in the oil you want it settle into the bottom of the oil pan. So if you "do not" have an oil filter run non-detergent oil I thick the early Ford oil change intervals was something like only 1000 miles. If you don't have a filter that is probably a good idea.

On my flat tappet Mustang engines I always ran diesel Delo 400 15W40 because the diesels have extra zinc the zinc to keep from wiping put the rod bearings because of the high compressios' pressure exerted on them. I was going to run the same oil in my flathead, that's if I ever finish one. If you have flathead without a filter I don't know if their is a readily available non-detergent oil with the zinc. The problem I have is I walk into an O'Reilly's or an AutoZone and they are in such competition with each other they carry the exact same thing. If its not a fast moving item they don't have it. They have run all the old-time parts stores out of business. They even ran our Napa out of business.

We only ran Delo 15W40 oil at the phone company on 400 vehicles. Didn't matter if it called for 10W-30W, 5W-30, synthetic they all got 15W-40W Delo 400. We had some larger diesel trucks that required the Delo 400 oil so everything got it. They bought their oil in bulk, 500 gallons at a time that was held in a large above ground tank. Then it was pumped through the shop to the overhead lube reels. They refused to stock every kind of oil the factories recommended. In 30-years we never lost one single engine because of bearing failure. Some had over 300,000 miles on them When did lose one which was rare it was because it ran out of oil, it was the driver's responsibility to check the oil, If they screwed up we billed the engine to their department. Also, most engines were Dodge 5.2s, 5,9s, Chevy 350s, Ford straight sixes, 302s, 351s 429s 460s and I never had a single lifter dish on a flat tappet cam. So I know from following hundreds, maybe even thousands of engines with a combine million and millions of miles on thenm that the Del 400 diesel oil is a great oil. There is absolutely no other oil I would trust.

MY newer pickup takes 0W-30W synthetic. I know the engine clearances are designed for that thin oil. I'm not the "cheap" phone company so I use what the factory recommends on my modern vehicles but on the vintage ones it's only Delo 400.

[19Fordy]

Flathead Fever: Thanks for posting that oil filter and oil info. Very interesting.