Changed Fuel Filter-Now won't start

[Oliver the 28 A]

1928 Model A. Car was running great however I noticed the filter in the globe was pretty dark along with some sediment at the bottom. I ordered a new filter, cleaned out the globe, replaced filter/spring/rubber seal and now the car won't start. It fired right up and I drove it for about 3 miles. Everything ran fine. I let it sit for about an hour with fuel line still opened, fired right up and ran for about 30 seconds and died. Will not start now. I pulled fuel line to make sure I had flow which I did. Could it be something in the carb? Could the fuel line have some kind of vacuum effect and it needs primed? Please help

[johnbuckley]

assuming nothing else was altered .....it certainly sounds like fuel starvation...You say the fuel line has good flow. ...but one immediately suspects that may be fuel line is pushed too far into housing? ( I've been there, had that!) The olives should sit about 3/32 inch ( 2 millimetres ish) from the end of the line . Usually no vaccuum issues to over come unless no vent in filler cap... try it with cap off ,

[Tom Wesenberg]

Best to use the cork gasket to seal the glass. Ethanol will destroy rubber parts.

[1928Mik]

I had that problem after installing new screen filters. Culprit was a sticky carb needle valve. I pulled it out and used carb cleaner and a Q-tip. Took care of issue.

[Bill G]

I know you say your line is open, but that 30-second thing sure sounds like when I occasionally forget to turn the gas valve back on after letting the car sit. It takes about 30 seconds to use up the gas in the carb before it runs dry. If not that issue, then maybe something got loose and lodged itself in the line or an internal port or venturi insice the carb.

Good luck.

[Y-Blockhead]

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Have you tried it without the new filter installed?
A friend installed a new filter and it wouldn't start. Turned out he had the incorrect filter installed and the gasket was partially covering the holes in the filter. Worth a check...

[Patrick L.]

Did you let the bowl fill after the filter change ? If the filter bowl is empty, bleed it. If it is full them remove the filter and try again.

[Marshall V. Daut]

Disconnect the choke rod assembly from the lower casting and take out the carb's center bolt from the bottom. It's a 9/16" hex head bolt. Cradle the casting in your hand as you lower it. If there is no fuel or a very low amount in the lower casting's bowl, the needle and seat are not functioning properly, as previously suggested. Or fuel is not reaching the carb, as also suggested. By dropping the lower carb casting, you can visually assure yourself the carb is getting gas, at least enough to start the engine. If the bowl's fuel level is correct (about 1/2 to 3/4 of the way full), then the problem lies elsewhere.
Marshall

[Marshall V. Daut]

By the way, turn off the gas valve before separating the two carburetor halves.
M.

[JDupuis]

Lots of good suggestions.
I noticed this is your first post.!
WELCOME TO THE BARN!!! . Jeff

[NCRebel]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

Best to use the cork gasket to seal the glass. Ethanol will destroy rubber parts.

Amen to cork gasket on your glass bowl. Even with Sea-foam or other additive and non ethynol gas, the petroleum is too corrosive for the new poly gaskets.

As a new member also, welcome to the new learning curve.

[Oliver the 28 A]

i had plenty of fuel flow at the fuel line that connects to the carb with the new filter. I was also able to drive the car for a few miles right after I installed the new filter

[Oliver the 28 A]

Thank you. I will try that. If I let the car sit for a hour or so with the valve off and then turned back on right before trying to start I will get it to start for about 5 seconds before it shuts back down. And after that it won't start at all.

[Oliver the 28 A]

Thank you! I purchased my car knowing nothing about a Model A with the intent to learn and discover. I have had a lot of fun with it and look forward to learning as much as I can.

[J Franklin]

You should buy a bit of literature such as the owners manual and a good restoration manual. I have a booklet published by Ford concerning basic restoration guidlines.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/332389699754...84.m1555.l2649

Les Andrews has a few more in depth manuals that everybody seems to enjoy also.

[Bruce Adams]

CRACK the line by loosening the nut at the carb, allowing some air out, fuel flow on, and eliminating a probable air bubble induced when you had it apart.

[supergnat]

During one of my first experiences with a Model A I had the same problem. After turning the gas back on it Would run for about 5 seconds and then shut and not start again. I turned the gas off and waited just like you did and then turned it back on and had the same result. I am embarrased to say that I was turning the gas off when I thought I was turning it on and vice versa. That blunder made me miss riding in the 4th of July Parade. Hopefully that is your problem. Supergnat

[Chuck Sea/Tac]

I've seen the filter bowl gasket plug the outlet of the filter bowl

[jthomas6]

Originally Posted by supergnat

During one of my first experiences with a Model A I had the same problem. After turning the gas back on it Would run for about 5 seconds and then shut and not start again. I turned the gas off and waited just like you did and then turned it back on and had the same result. I am embarrased to say that I was turning the gas off when I thought I was turning it on and vice versa. That blunder made me miss riding in the 4th of July Parade. Hopefully that is your problem. Supergnat

Been there, done that! I now have a little saying:

OFF to the right; UP and running.

[Oliver the 28 A]

Originally Posted by supergnat

During one of my first experiences with a Model A I had the same problem. After turning the gas back on it Would run for about 5 seconds and then shut and not start again. I turned the gas off and waited just like you did and then turned it back on and had the same result. I am embarrased to say that I was turning the gas off when I thought I was turning it on and vice versa. That blunder made me miss riding in the 4th of July Parade. Hopefully that is your problem. Supergnat

I made sure of that because when I pulled the fuel line I had it off and to test good flow I turned it on. Thanks

[Oliver the 28 A]

so I tried it again this evening. Fired right up and ran fine for 30 seconds and then died and will not start. Starting to get a bit frustrated. Does anyone thing it has anything to do with the adjusting screw on top of the carb?

[johnbuckley]

Originally Posted by Oliver the 28 A

so I tried it again this evening. Fired right up and ran fine for 30 seconds and then died and will not start. Starting to get a bit frustrated. Does anyone thing it has anything to do with the adjusting screw on top of the carb?

The screw is for adjusting the fuel/air mixture of the idle circuit..screw in to make it richer, out weaker. But I suggest you don't fiddle with mixturescrew at this stage ... Advise similiar to post #8 1) turn petrol off , 2) disconnect choke rod , unscrew large bolt at bottom of carb and remove lower half of body of carb ( careful you don't break the gasket and careful you don't bend long brass idle jet) 3) turn on petrol and see if it flows out of the upper body . If it doesn't pour out you have a blockage in en route somewhere. If it gushes out of top of carb look elsewhere for the culprit ( electrical? crud in lower body somewhere?).

[Tom Wesenberg]

Do you have the small aftermarket filter that fits in the top of the tank valve?

That's an important first step to avoid junk blocking the fuel.
First flush the tank as well as you can, then install the filter.

[Patrick L.]

Start with the filter. Bleed it.

What kind of cover does it have ? Pot metal or glass ? If glass, you can see if it needs bleeding or not. If Pot metal, just bleed it anyway. Loosen the hold down screw enough to allow for the gasket seal to break loose and let the air out until the fuel flows. If you have already done this, then as Roseanne Rosanna Danna would say, never mind.



The car ran fine before the filter change. Make sure the air is out of the filter. If it still doesn't want to run, remove the filter/screen and try it. Check the gasket and screen.

[Marshall V. Daut]

I agree with JohnBuckley - and not just because he agrees with me. The fact that the engine will run for about 30 seconds and die on a fairly consistent basis eliminates an electrical problem. That leaves two possibilities involving the fuel system: (1) The carburetor needle is hanging up in the seat and only allows gas to dribble into the chamber. If the car sits long enough (say, overnight or for a couple hours), sufficient gas has accumulated in the bowl to start the engine and run for a half minute before it dies due to lack of fuel. This is usually accepted as about the right amount of time a Model A engine should run with the on/off valve shut off and the chamber full. This time can be tweaked by lowering or raising the float level. Solution: either take the needle and seat apart and clean, or replace them. My bet is there is a Grose valve (ball) in your carb that is gunked up by Ethanol and is sticking, thus not allowing gas to flow into the carb. (2) There is a blockage in the on/off valve that will allow enough fuel to enter the carb after sitting for a while, but not enough to keep it running. Try this: turn the gas off, loosen the fuel line brass fittings at the sediment bowl and unscrew the one at the carb. Pull the line out of the carb and rotate it 180 degrees so that it is above the engine. Tighten the sediment bowl fitting so that the line stays at this level. Turn the on/off valve back on and take off the gas cap. Blow as hard as you can into the carb end fuel line. You should hear gurgling from inside the gas tank. If you hear nothing or you cannot get your breath to make the gas gurgle, the on/off valve is plugged with old cork bits from previous gas gauge floats or other gunk. Keep blowing until you break up the gunk inside the on/off valve. Once you hear the gurgling, the path is clear. The gunk will go back up into the tank, opening up the flow of fuel - temporarily. Reconnect the fuel line and tighten the brass fittings. Turn on the fuel and start the engine. If it continues to run, you'll know your on/off valve was plugged. Solution: drain the gas tank, remove the on/off valve and clean out any remaining gunk, inserting a pencil filter in the upper inlet (that goes into the tank). That will keep the gunk from gathering at the lowest place in your gas tank = the on/off valve.
Check these two suggestions out and get back to us.
Marshall

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

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A good OVERALL fuel flow test: Remove the carb drain plug, turn on the gas & observe if you have a good, CONSISTANT flow, for a MINUTE or so. I once had a small BLACK Beetle on top of the N/S valve!---AND, the filter in the top of carb is OFTEN FORGOTTEN!--DON'T use a MICROFILTER there, they will even plug up with the "harmless" RUST-DUST!
Bill Running
Bill Pfffft

[Oliver the 28 A]

Originally Posted by Marshall V. Daut

I agree with JohnBuckley - and not just because he agrees with me. The fact that the engine will run for about 30 seconds and die on a fairly consistent basis eliminates an electrical problem. That leaves two possibilities involving the fuel system: (1) The carburetor needle is hanging up in the seat and only allows gas to dribble into the chamber. If the car sits long enough (say, overnight or for a couple hours), sufficient gas has accumulated in the bowl to start the engine and run for a half minute before it dies due to lack of fuel. This is usually accepted as about the right amount of time a Model A engine should run with the on/off valve shut off and the chamber full. This time can be tweaked by lowering or raising the float level. Solution: either take the needle and seat apart and clean, or replace them. My bet is there is a Grose valve (ball) in your carb that is gunked up by Ethanol and is sticking, thus not allowing gas to flow into the carb. (2) There is a blockage in the on/off valve that will allow enough fuel to enter the carb after sitting for a while, but not enough to keep it running. Try this: turn the gas off, loosen the fuel line brass fittings at the sediment bowl and unscrew the one at the carb. Pull the line out of the carb and rotate it 180 degrees so that it is above the engine. Tighten the sediment bowl fitting so that the line stays at this level. Turn the on/off valve back on and take off the gas cap. Blow as hard as you can into the carb end fuel line. You should hear gurgling from inside the gas tank. If you hear nothing or you cannot get your breath to make the gas gurgle, the on/off valve is plugged with old cork bits from previous gas gauge floats or other gunk. Keep blowing until you break up the gunk inside the on/off valve. Once you hear the gurgling, the path is clear. The gunk will go back up into the tank, opening up the flow of fuel - temporarily. Reconnect the fuel line and tighten the brass fittings. Turn on the fuel and start the engine. If it continues to run, you'll know your on/off valve was plugged. Solution: drain the gas tank, remove the on/off valve and clean out any remaining gunk, inserting a pencil filter in the upper inlet (that goes into the tank). That will keep the gunk from gathering at the lowest place in your gas tank = the on/off valve.
Check these two suggestions out and get back to us.
Marshall

Thank you for all of this information. I was successful at fixing it last night. I pulled the fuel line where it enters the carb. It's was pushed too far in the carb and seemed to have been pinched so I made sure it wasn't wedged in there when I connected back and everything seems to be running fine.
Thank you

[Oliver the 28 A]

Originally Posted by johnbuckley

assuming nothing else was altered .....it certainly sounds like fuel starvation...You say the fuel line has good flow. ...but one immediately suspects that may be fuel line is pushed too far into housing? ( I've been there, had that!) The olives should sit about 3/32 inch ( 2 millimetres ish) from the end of the line . Usually no vaccuum issues to over come unless no vent in filler cap... try it with cap off ,

So I tried your suggestion and it worked. Thanks so much