The Ford Barn

bogdonj · 08-06-2010, 12:35 PM

I recently installed a new rebuilt engine, balanced crank,flywheel etc, in my 31 sedan and noticed now that I have grinding type of noise when in high gear and really noticeable at low RPM. when I speed up it is a lot less noticeable and when I engage clutch it goes away?? this only happens in 3rd gear. I don't recall this happening before new engine was installed which is why I didn't have anything done to transmission while motor was out...any ideas??

1931 flamingo · 08-06-2010, 01:58 PM

Pilot bearing?
Paul in CT

Blessyouboys · 08-06-2010, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1931 flamingo

Pilot bearing?
Paul in CT

In third gear? In any gear?

How does the input shaft speed ever differ from the crankshaft when the clutch is released?

Mitch//pa · 08-06-2010, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blessyouboys

In third gear? In any gear?

How does the input shaft speed ever differ from the crankshaft when the clutch is released?

if the clutch slips. lol

Patrick L. · 08-06-2010, 02:44 PM

Did you check flywheel to bellhousing alignment with the new engine?? Are the two shims installed ?? Can you kinda pinpoint the location of the noise??

bogdonj · 08-06-2010, 03:50 PM

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How do you check flywheel to bellhousing alignment?? and where are the shims located?
it's hard to pinpoint noise but it appears to be down around transmission, flywheel area.
sorry I can't be more helpful......the new rebuilt motor came complete with flywheel housing flywheel clutch plate etc. ...everything is fine with idle, takeoff, shifting but 3rd gear is noisy at low speed takeoff and de-acceleration which would probably leave me to believe a bearing problem in transmission ?

Mitch//pa · 08-06-2010, 04:31 PM

okay now,
if your going down the road in 3rd gear and you push the clutch pedal in and coast, you say the noise goes away correct. still rotating is everything in the trans rear bearing front bearing, input shaft etc. the only thing your doing is disconnecting the input shaft from the engine by way of the clutch. i am thinking its not in the trans then

i am also asuuming your not shifting it to neutral while doing this

rotorwrench · 08-06-2010, 05:15 PM

When in third or high gear you are in 1 to 1 drive through the main drive to the main shaft. If the flywheel/clutch plate & cover is not aligned with the main drive in the trans, it will force it to one side a little bit. Some shimming may be required to correct a situation like this if that applies. It is a possability worth looking into. You may have to contact your engine rebuilder and see how he checked the alignment when he built er up.

Kerby

bogdonj · 08-06-2010, 06:10 PM

Here are some photos if you guys can tell anything.. new engine and original trans.

bogdonj · 08-07-2010, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

When in third or high gear you are in 1 to 1 drive through the main drive to the main shaft. If the flywheel/clutch plate & cover is not aligned with the main drive in the trans, it will force it to one side a little bit. Some shimming may be required to correct a situation like this if that applies. It is a possability worth looking into. You may have to contact your engine rebuilder and see how he checked the alignment when he built er up.

Kerby

Where and how do you do this shimming to correct this alignment if this were the case?

Patrick L. · 08-07-2010, 01:43 PM

I just noticed the message and responded.. Sorry for being late.. If I screwed something up and you don't get it let me know..

rotorwrench · 08-07-2010, 03:48 PM

A gauge tool can be fabricated that bolts to the crankshaft flange in place of the flywheel. The crankshaft can then be rotated to check & see if the flywheel housing is in good alignment with it. I'm sure a dial indicator can be rigged up to do this check with some yankee ingenuity. Horse shoe shaped shims are used between the flywheel housing and the block to get it into best possible alignment. They usually start with 2 shims. A variation of no more than .006" is considered acceptable. After that you install the flywheel then reverse the mounting of the gauge tool installing it on the flywheel housing. You then rotate the flywheel to see if it is out of round with the housing. If more than .005" of wobble is detected then it should be remachined or replaced. You can sometimes just unbolt it and reposition it 90 degrees or so and bolt it back up for another check. I would try that before running down to the machine shop if it has too much wobble.

Kerby

bogdonj · 08-07-2010, 04:38 PM

Thanks everyone for there input ..much appreciated!... but I am very confident that the alignment and/or shim suggestion is not the problem as the engine builder is a very reputable and experienced model A engine builder/owner with well over 100 Model A engine rebuilds to his credit and I am sure everything was done to the book.

Tom Wesenberg · 08-07-2010, 07:50 PM

Here are some pictures I took of the last flywheel and cover I checked and shimmed. Before I found this original KRW tool I made a tool out of flat stock to mount the dial indicator to. If the engine is installed in the car I still have to use the homemade tool.

Take reading of the flywheel cover at 9, 12 and 3 o'clock positions. Most of the time you will need shims the same thickness as the flywheel cover gasket, to keep the flywheel cover within .006" at the 3 measurements.

V4F · 04-19-2011, 03:58 PM

maybe a shaft bearing in the transmission ................... steve

bogdonj · 04-20-2011, 09:39 AM

Just to update the thread.. It's been about 6 months and the car was in storage. We had it look at last September by a well knowing Model A expert and he said it's coming from the tranny and it's probably the bearings. In the next coming months we are going to drop the rear end and take the tranny out and let him take a look at it and replace all the bearings. All the gears in the tranny look good! Keep everyone updated on what we find.

Justin

08-06-2010, 12:35 PM	#1
bogdonj Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Walkerton, Ont. Canada Posts: 623	High gear noise ?? I recently installed a new rebuilt engine, balanced crank,flywheel etc, in my 31 sedan and noticed now that I have grinding type of noise when in high gear and really noticeable at low RPM. when I speed up it is a lot less noticeable and when I engage clutch it goes away?? this only happens in 3rd gear. I don't recall this happening before new engine was installed which is why I didn't have anything done to transmission while motor was out...any ideas??

08-06-2010, 01:58 PM	#2
1931 flamingo Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: new britain,ct 06052 Posts: 9,390	Re: High gear noise ?? Pilot bearing? Paul in CT

08-06-2010, 02:44 PM	#5
Patrick L. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Largo Florida Posts: 7,225	Re: High gear noise ?? Did you check flywheel to bellhousing alignment with the new engine?? Are the two shims installed ?? Can you kinda pinpoint the location of the noise??

08-06-2010, 03:50 PM	#6
bogdonj Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Walkerton, Ont. Canada Posts: 623	Re: High gear noise ?? Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) How do you check flywheel to bellhousing alignment?? and where are the shims located? it's hard to pinpoint noise but it appears to be down around transmission, flywheel area. sorry I can't be more helpful......the new rebuilt motor came complete with flywheel housing flywheel clutch plate etc. ...everything is fine with idle, takeoff, shifting but 3rd gear is noisy at low speed takeoff and de-acceleration which would probably leave me to believe a bearing problem in transmission ?

08-06-2010, 04:31 PM	#7
Mitch//pa BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks County, PA Posts: 11,454	Re: High gear noise ?? okay now, if your going down the road in 3rd gear and you push the clutch pedal in and coast, you say the noise goes away correct. still rotating is everything in the trans rear bearing front bearing, input shaft etc. the only thing your doing is disconnecting the input shaft from the engine by way of the clutch. i am thinking its not in the trans then i am also asuuming your not shifting it to neutral while doing this Last edited by Mitch//pa; 08-06-2010 at 04:36 PM.

08-06-2010, 05:15 PM	#8
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,436	Re: High gear noise ?? When in third or high gear you are in 1 to 1 drive through the main drive to the main shaft. If the flywheel/clutch plate & cover is not aligned with the main drive in the trans, it will force it to one side a little bit. Some shimming may be required to correct a situation like this if that applies. It is a possability worth looking into. You may have to contact your engine rebuilder and see how he checked the alignment when he built er up. Kerby

08-07-2010, 01:43 PM	#11
Patrick L. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Largo Florida Posts: 7,225	Re: High gear noise ?? I just noticed the message and responded.. Sorry for being late.. If I screwed something up and you don't get it let me know..

08-07-2010, 03:48 PM	#12
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,436	Re: High gear noise ?? A gauge tool can be fabricated that bolts to the crankshaft flange in place of the flywheel. The crankshaft can then be rotated to check & see if the flywheel housing is in good alignment with it. I'm sure a dial indicator can be rigged up to do this check with some yankee ingenuity. Horse shoe shaped shims are used between the flywheel housing and the block to get it into best possible alignment. They usually start with 2 shims. A variation of no more than .006" is considered acceptable. After that you install the flywheel then reverse the mounting of the gauge tool installing it on the flywheel housing. You then rotate the flywheel to see if it is out of round with the housing. If more than .005" of wobble is detected then it should be remachined or replaced. You can sometimes just unbolt it and reposition it 90 degrees or so and bolt it back up for another check. I would try that before running down to the machine shop if it has too much wobble. Kerby Last edited by rotorwrench; 08-07-2010 at 03:54 PM.

08-07-2010, 04:38 PM	#13
bogdonj Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Walkerton, Ont. Canada Posts: 623	Re: High gear noise ?? Thanks everyone for there input ..much appreciated!... but I am very confident that the alignment and/or shim suggestion is not the problem as the engine builder is a very reputable and experienced model A engine builder/owner with well over 100 Model A engine rebuilds to his credit and I am sure everything was done to the book.

08-07-2010, 07:50 PM	#14
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: High gear noise ?? Here are some pictures I took of the last flywheel and cover I checked and shimmed. Before I found this original KRW tool I made a tool out of flat stock to mount the dial indicator to. If the engine is installed in the car I still have to use the homemade tool. Take reading of the flywheel cover at 9, 12 and 3 o'clock positions. Most of the time you will need shims the same thickness as the flywheel cover gasket, to keep the flywheel cover within .006" at the 3 measurements.

04-19-2011, 03:58 PM	#15
V4F Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: ca. Posts: 2,522	Re: High gear noise ?? maybe a shaft bearing in the transmission ................... steve __________________ V4f

04-20-2011, 09:39 AM	#16
bogdonj Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Walkerton, Ont. Canada Posts: 623	Re: High gear noise ?? Just to update the thread.. It's been about 6 months and the car was in storage. We had it look at last September by a well knowing Model A expert and he said it's coming from the tranny and it's probably the bearings. In the next coming months we are going to drop the rear end and take the tranny out and let him take a look at it and replace all the bearings. All the gears in the tranny look good! Keep everyone updated on what we find. Justin