The Ford Barn

SJCormier · 03-22-2023, 08:33 AM

What are the differences in transmissions and rear axles for 33 ford passenger cars that were equipped with the model B four cylinder versus the V8? What are some of the other notable differences in the engine compartment and the controls layout. Also, I have a 33 coupe that has the VIN prefix CBT. What does that prefix indicate?

DavidG · 03-22-2023, 08:55 AM

Your CBT engine number prefix indicates that your car was produced by Ford of Canada and was built with a four-cylinder engine.

The '33-'34 four-cylinder rear axle had a shorter torque tube and drive shaft than the V8 version. The transmission cases were unique, but the gears, etc. in the cases were the same.

The engines and everything attached to them were unique, as were the exhaust system from the muffler forward. The engine splash pans are unique as were the radiators and the radiator support rods. The accelerator pedal assemblies were unique as were the choke and throttle controls. Those choke and throttle controls attached to the face of the dash in different ways.

SJCormier · 03-22-2023, 11:39 AM

Thanks for the info. Now I have other questions. At some point in its existence my coupe got a C59A V8 engine. Could the V8 have been transplanted into the car without changing the transmission and torque tube? How do you tell the difference in the transmissions and what length should the torque tube be? Also thought that I had read somewhere that rear axle ratios were different for the model B and the V8.

deuce lover · 03-22-2023, 12:01 PM

The V8 and 4 cyl transmissions are notably different ,The 4cyl will not bolt up to the V8 and vice versa.On the V8 the starter is on the right and at the level of the oil pan. Only 2 gear ratios were available in 33 & 34.4.11 and 3.54.

rockfla · 03-22-2023, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SJCormier

Thanks for the info. Now I have other questions. At some point in its existence my coupe got a C59A V8 engine. Could the V8 have been transplanted into the car without changing the transmission and torque tube? How do you tell the difference in the transmissions and what length should the torque tube be? Also thought that I had read somewhere that rear axle ratios were different for the model B and the V8.

The V8 torque tube should be about 1-3/4" longer than that of the 4cyl. No the same transmission could not be used for the V8 Engine. The difference in axle ratio's for V8 & 4's was in 1932 4:11 & 4:33 (V8) 3:78 & 4:11 (4cyl). In 1933 there were two axle ratio's for passenger and commercial vehicles, 4:11 & 4:33, 4:11 being what our 33 4 door with the 4cyl has.

Sheldon: according to Francis & DeAngelis 3:54 didn't come till 1934

DavidG · 03-22-2023, 12:49 PM

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As I indicated earlier, the four-cylinder and v8 transmission cases were different, so obviously you cannot use the four-cylinder transmission with a V8 engine nor could you use the V8 transmission with a four-cylinder engine. If you own a '33 Ford and do not know what the transmissions look like for the two engines, methinks it is time for you to invest in a '33-'34 chassis parts catalog on ebay or Amazon. Relying on websites for your education is folly.

SJCormier · 03-22-2023, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidG

As I indicated earlier, the four-cylinder and v8 transmission cases were different, so obviously you cannot use the four-cylinder transmission with a V8 engine nor could you use the V8 transmission with a four-cylinder engine. If you own a '33 Ford and do not know what the transmissions look like for the two engines, methinks it is time for you to invest in a '33-'34 chassis parts catalog on ebay or Amazon. Relying on websites for your education is folly.

Thanks. I absolutely will be looking for the chassis catalog. I’ve been into Model A’s for a while but I’m just getting started with the early V8 cars. Didn’t really know where to start so that’s why I came here. I’ll probably be looking into joining the early V8 club as well.

DavidG · 03-22-2023, 05:54 PM

Here's a photo of a '33 V8 transmission and another of two '32-'34 four-cylinder transmission cases (with '32 rear mounts in this case). The four-cylinder '33-'34 transmissions used the same rear mount as their V8 counterparts only in reverse to accommodate the set back of the four-cylinder engine/transmission assembly.

V8COOPMAN · 03-22-2023, 09:55 PM

.

Here is the difference between the V8 transmission case on the blue dolly, and the 4-cylinder case on the right.

The difference between '33-'34 4-cylinder torque tubes is 1-1/2"... not 1-3/4" as someone referenced.

Coop

mercman from oz · 03-22-2023, 10:13 PM

1933 – 1934 Ford Torque Tube Lengths

TORQUE TUBES '33/'34

V8 = 61-13/16"
4-cyl = 60-3/16"

DRIVE SHAFTS '33/'34

V8 = 60-5/32"
4-cylinder = 58-7/16"

rockfla · 03-23-2023, 06:59 AM

Wow Coop

CALLED ME OUT.....I guess "ABOUT" 1-3/4 is "WAY" off the mark.....I guess you are not as friendly with Edward Francis & George DeAngelis as I am, being what ends up an 1/8th off on the torque tube measurement & .0315 off on the driveshaft length (Given Trevor's dead exact measurements, Thank you Trevor)......too much to be considered a "slight" difference "amongst friends" (or not). I thought Ed & George's use of "about" gave a little leeway as it "could" be slightly longer OR in this case "could" be slightly shorter BUT thought close enough that IF the OP was or had a rear difff's to measure, whether it was from the top of one of the bolts holding the torque tube to the housing OR from the face of the housing, 1-3/4 is ABOUT the mark........ Super Tough crowd these days I see!!! Lol!!!

V8COOPMAN · 03-23-2023, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockfla

Wow Coop

CALLED ME OUT.....I guess "ABOUT" 1-3/4 is "WAY" off the mark.....I guess you are not as friendly with Edward Francis & George DeAngelis as I am, being what ends up an 1/8th off on the torque tube measurement & .0315 off on the driveshaft length (Given Trevor's dead exact measurements, Thank you Trevor)......too much to be considered a "slight" difference "amongst friends" (or not). I thought Ed & George's use of "about" gave a little leeway as it "could" be slightly longer OR in this case "could" be slightly shorter BUT thought close enough that IF the OP was or had a rear difff's to measure, whether it was from the top of one of the bolts holding the torque tube to the housing OR from the face of the housing, 1-3/4 is ABOUT the mark........ Super Tough crowd these days I see!!! Lol!!!

You know, we just finished with my wife's funeral! Yup .... TODAY! Only three different guys here on the 'Barn know anything of her sudden & unexpected passing very recently. So I ain't in the best of moods to begin with. Probably not hard to imagine, huh!

I thought I was being kind-enough by not pointing-out the name of who got it slightly incorrect. Yes, Treavor's measurement are DEAD-ON! I've researched (and printed) those figures here on the 'Barn for years. Those exact dimensions were just a little more than I wanted to go hunting for last night ..... FOR ACCURACY! You, of all people, should know by now that I am a stickler for details. I knew that the 1-1/2" measurement was far more accurate than 1-3/4". And while you seem to want to note old Ed's and old George's ideas about the "WHYS" of some things Ford, those two boys could have done just a little more research for their statement below about WHY the V8 and 4-cylinder torque tubes are of a different length. THEY state that "due to the new design of the V8 transmission, the V8 torque tube was longer by about 1-3/4 inches." Well, that just ain't true! The 4-cylinder torque tube is shorter because the 4-cylinder engine block is 1-1/2" longer (front to rear) than the V8 block. So, I wasn't 'calling you out'. I was simply trying to keep things as accurate as we can.

Coop

.

DavidG · 03-23-2023, 03:22 PM

Coop,

My sincere condolences. I went through what you are facing two and half years ago.

David

Lawrie · 03-23-2023, 03:26 PM

Coop,
I will spare a moment to think of you today, you are going through a very hard time,
Loosing a partner is very hard,
Take care and stay strong.
Lawrie

tubman · 03-23-2023, 04:07 PM

Coop,

My condolences also; I had no idea. I grieve with you, having gone through this five years ago.

Denny

mercman from oz · 03-23-2023, 07:09 PM

Coop, Very sorry to hear about the loss of your wife. You are in our prayers. May God be your comfort.
Mercman <><

V8COOPMAN · 03-23-2023, 08:57 PM

.

DavidG, Tub, Lawrie & Trevor ..... I sincerely thank all of you guys!

Coop

.

Will Kimble · 03-24-2023, 06:33 AM

Very slight difference in ‘32 B & ‘33-34 B transmission cases, has to do with clearance for steady rods I believe.

rockfla · 03-24-2023, 06:42 AM

[QUOTE=V8COOPMAN;2213233]You know, we just finished with my wife's funeral! Yup .... TODAY! Only three different guys here on the 'Barn know anything of her sudden & unexpected passing very recently. So I ain't in the best of moods to begin with. Probably not hard to imagine, huh!

I thought I was being kind-enough by not pointing-out the name of who got it slightly incorrect. Yes, Treavor's measurement are DEAD-ON! I've researched (and printed) those figures here on the 'Barn for years. Those exact dimensions were just a little more than I wanted to go hunting for last night ..... FOR ACCURACY! You, of all people, should know by now that I am a stickler for details. I knew that the 1-1/2" measurement was far more accurate than 1-3/4". And while you seem to want to note old Ed's and old George's ideas about the "WHYS" of some things Ford, those two boys could have done just a little more research for their statement below about WHY the V8 and 4-cylinder torque tubes are of a different length. THEY state that "due to the new design of the V8 transmission, the V8 torque tube was longer by about 1-3/4 inches." Well, that just ain't true! The 4-cylinder torque tube is shorter because the 4-cylinder engine block is 1-1/2" longer (front to rear) than the V8 block. So, I wasn't 'calling you out'. I was simply trying to keep things as accurate as we can.

Coop

SO sorry for your loss Coopman. I was intending on the "Frivolity" and lighthearted fun side on my comments to you....Prayers for comfort and peace to you and your family. Sincerest of Condolences Coop!!! Sorry for any lack of tact.

DavidG · 03-24-2023, 06:57 AM

The steady rod difference between a '32 and '33-'34 engine/transmission assemblies in terms of the steady rod attachments is in the upper flywheel housing, not in the transmission case. The '32 upper flywheel housing has separate steady rod brackets while the '33-'34 upper flywheel housing has cast-in holes for the steady rods' attachment.

03-22-2023, 08:33 AM	#1
SJCormier Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Ragley, LA. Posts: 15	1933 Model B and V8 drivetrain differences. What are the differences in transmissions and rear axles for 33 ford passenger cars that were equipped with the model B four cylinder versus the V8? What are some of the other notable differences in the engine compartment and the controls layout. Also, I have a 33 coupe that has the VIN prefix CBT. What does that prefix indicate?

03-22-2023, 08:55 AM	#2
DavidG Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: southeastern Michigan Posts: 10,104	Re: 1933 Model B and V8 drivetrain differences. Your CBT engine number prefix indicates that your car was produced by Ford of Canada and was built with a four-cylinder engine. The '33-'34 four-cylinder rear axle had a shorter torque tube and drive shaft than the V8 version. The transmission cases were unique, but the gears, etc. in the cases were the same. The engines and everything attached to them were unique, as were the exhaust system from the muffler forward. The engine splash pans are unique as were the radiators and the radiator support rods. The accelerator pedal assemblies were unique as were the choke and throttle controls. Those choke and throttle controls attached to the face of the dash in different ways.

03-22-2023, 11:39 AM	#3
SJCormier Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Ragley, LA. Posts: 15	Re: 1933 Model B and V8 drivetrain differences. Thanks for the info. Now I have other questions. At some point in its existence my coupe got a C59A V8 engine. Could the V8 have been transplanted into the car without changing the transmission and torque tube? How do you tell the difference in the transmissions and what length should the torque tube be? Also thought that I had read somewhere that rear axle ratios were different for the model B and the V8.

03-22-2023, 12:01 PM	#4
deuce lover Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern France Posts: 5,308	Re: 1933 Model B and V8 drivetrain differences. The V8 and 4 cyl transmissions are notably different ,The 4cyl will not bolt up to the V8 and vice versa.On the V8 the starter is on the right and at the level of the oil pan. Only 2 gear ratios were available in 33 & 34.4.11 and 3.54.

03-22-2023, 12:49 PM	#6
DavidG Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: southeastern Michigan Posts: 10,104	Re: 1933 Model B and V8 drivetrain differences. Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) As I indicated earlier, the four-cylinder and v8 transmission cases were different, so obviously you cannot use the four-cylinder transmission with a V8 engine nor could you use the V8 transmission with a four-cylinder engine. If you own a '33 Ford and do not know what the transmissions look like for the two engines, methinks it is time for you to invest in a '33-'34 chassis parts catalog on ebay or Amazon. Relying on websites for your education is folly.

03-22-2023, 09:55 PM	#9
V8COOPMAN Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: East Shore of LAKE HOUSTON Posts: 11,115	Re: 1933 Model B and V8 drivetrain differences. . Here is the difference between the V8 transmission case on the blue dolly, and the 4-cylinder case on the right. The difference between '33-'34 4-cylinder torque tubes is 1-1/2"... not 1-3/4" as someone referenced. Coop __________________ *Click Links Below* __ ▼ *'35-'36 W/8BA & MECHANICAL FAN* *T5 W/TORQUE TUBE*

03-22-2023, 10:13 PM	#10
mercman from oz Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Queensland, Australia Posts: 10,377	Re: 1933 Model B and V8 drivetrain differences. 1933 – 1934 Ford Torque Tube Lengths TORQUE TUBES '33/'34 V8 = 61-13/16" 4-cyl = 60-3/16" DRIVE SHAFTS '33/'34 V8 = 60-5/32" 4-cylinder = 58-7/16"

03-23-2023, 03:22 PM	#13
DavidG Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: southeastern Michigan Posts: 10,104	Re: 1933 Model B and V8 drivetrain differences. Coop, My sincere condolences. I went through what you are facing two and half years ago. David

03-23-2023, 03:26 PM	#14
Lawrie Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Qld, Australia Posts: 4,223	Re: 1933 Model B and V8 drivetrain differences. Coop, I will spare a moment to think of you today, you are going through a very hard time, Loosing a partner is very hard, Take care and stay strong. Lawrie

03-23-2023, 04:07 PM	#15
tubman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys Posts: 10,321	Re: 1933 Model B and V8 drivetrain differences. Coop, My condolences also; I had no idea. I grieve with you, having gone through this five years ago. Denny

03-23-2023, 07:09 PM	#16
mercman from oz Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Queensland, Australia Posts: 10,377	Re: 1933 Model B and V8 drivetrain differences. Coop, Very sorry to hear about the loss of your wife. You are in our prayers. May God be your comfort. Mercman <><

03-23-2023, 08:57 PM	#17
V8COOPMAN Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: East Shore of LAKE HOUSTON Posts: 11,115	Re: 1933 Model B and V8 drivetrain differences. . *DavidG, Tub, Lawrie & Trevor .....* I sincerely thank all of you guys! Coop . __________________ *Click Links Below* __ ▼ *'35-'36 W/8BA & MECHANICAL FAN* *T5 W/TORQUE TUBE*

03-24-2023, 06:33 AM	#18
Will Kimble Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 165	Re: 1933 Model B and V8 drivetrain differences. Very slight difference in ‘32 B & ‘33-34 B transmission cases, has to do with clearance for steady rods I believe.

03-24-2023, 06:42 AM	#19
rockfla Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Jacksonville FL Posts: 3,963	Re: 1933 Model B and V8 drivetrain differences. [QUOTE=V8COOPMAN;2213233]You know, we just finished with my wife's funeral! Yup .... TODAY! Only three different guys here on the 'Barn know anything of her sudden & unexpected passing very recently. So I ain't in the best of moods to begin with. Probably not hard to imagine, huh! I thought I was being kind-enough by not pointing-out the name of who got it slightly incorrect. Yes, Treavor's measurement are DEAD-ON! I've researched (and printed) those figures here on the 'Barn for years. Those exact dimensions were just a little more than I wanted to go hunting for last night ..... FOR ACCURACY! You, of all people, should know by now that I am a stickler for details. I knew that the 1-1/2" measurement was far more accurate than 1-3/4". And while you seem to want to note old Ed's and old George's ideas about the "WHYS" of some things Ford, those two boys could have done just a little more research for their statement below about WHY the V8 and 4-cylinder torque tubes are of a different length. THEY state that "due to the new design of the V8 transmission, the V8 torque tube was longer by about 1-3/4 inches." Well, that just ain't true! The 4-cylinder torque tube is shorter because the 4-cylinder engine block is 1-1/2" longer (front to rear) than the V8 block. So, I wasn't 'calling you out'. I was simply trying to keep things as accurate as we can. Coop SO sorry for your loss Coopman. I was intending on the "Frivolity" and lighthearted fun side on my comments to you....Prayers for comfort and peace to you and your family. Sincerest of Condolences Coop!!! Sorry for any lack of tact.

03-24-2023, 06:57 AM	#20
DavidG Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: southeastern Michigan Posts: 10,104	Re: 1933 Model B and V8 drivetrain differences. The steady rod difference between a '32 and '33-'34 engine/transmission assemblies in terms of the steady rod attachments is in the upper flywheel housing, not in the transmission case. The '32 upper flywheel housing has separate steady rod brackets while the '33-'34 upper flywheel housing has cast-in holes for the steady rods' attachment.