Clam shell help

[Ricosan]

Good morning.
About a year ago, shortly after I bought the wagon, I had to have my shop here remove the transmission and send it to VanPelts because it was jumping out of second gear. It jumped out of gear under load , not at deceleration.
Mac fixed it and the drive line was reassembled. Are you saying that they left a part off when they reattached the tt to the transmission?
Do you have a picture of this missing part? I can’t see it in the diagram from VanPelts.
Richard

[Terry,OH]

This photo may assist if you need to locate where gaskets go.

[DavidG]

Please see photos of the missing part in #33.

[Terry,OH]

The part your missing is B-4513 cap (U-joint housing ) inner.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by Ricosan

Good morning.
About a year ago, shortly after I bought the wagon, I had to have my shop here remove the transmission and send it to VanPelts because it was jumping out of second gear. It jumped out of gear under load , not at deceleration.
Mac fixed it and the drive line was reassembled. Are you saying that they left a part off when they reattached the tt to the transmission?
Do you have a picture of this missing part? I can’t see it in the diagram from VanPelts.
Richard

This is all making sense now. There are multiple pictures posted of your car and one of them you posted has the part, but the most recent picture you posted showing the u-joint clearly does not have the inner clam shell.

So, yes, you are missing that inner part of the two part clam shell.


As Bored & Stroked mentioned, that part keeps the "mouth end" torque tube from pushing forward into the U-joint and putting undue stress onto the main shaft.

This is the part the torque tube pivots against as it goes up and down while traveling.

This is why the seal wasn't working because the torque tube was free to move fore and aft.

It was more than likely also hitting the u-joint which COULD be the source of your clicking sound. Hopefully you got lucky and it didn't cause damage to the trans.

Sadly, as mentioned, the rear needs to come out to fix all this. Sorry for the bad news.

[Ricosan]

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Ok! I finally see what you are talking about. The inner shell looks like the outer shell. That had me confused.
This means completely removing torque tube and rear end to install B 4513 A?
I’ve put about 700 miles on the wagon since I got it back from the shop. They removed the tt and the rear end and reinstalled same. Do you think I may have caused any damage?
Richard

[glennpm]

Hi Richard,

You are missing the B 4513 Cap (universal joint housing inner). As mentioned you will need to pull the rearend back enough to put it on. You can check the U-joint by putting a screwdriver between the U-joint spiders and rock back and forth. The end bearings of the U-joint cross wear out. I would put a new one in considering the work involved.

Someone didn't know what they were doing!

Glenn

[glennpm]

BTW, the cork or felt gasket is the same for either the early one piece and two piece clam shell design. It sure looks like your blue tube is too small in diameter such that it way not seal at all or cause metal to metal contact at this area.

[19Fordy]

Ricosin, Glad the Fordbarn folks were able to finally diagnose your problem. Amazing that the inner 4513 shell was left out. Since you will have to slide the rear end back to make the repair be sure to remove and check to see if your Universal joint is good and has the correct bolt securing it in place. It's a special bolt. Can't remember the name right now.
Also check all other drive train components in the area. good luck moving forward. Jim

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by 19Fordy

Ricosin, Glad the Fordbarn folks were able to finally diagnose your problem. Amazing that the inner 4513 shell was left out. Since you will have to slide the rear end back to make the repair be sure to remove and check to see if your Universal joint is good and has the correct bolt securing it in place. It's a special bolt. Can't remember the name right now.
Also check all other drive train components in the area. good luck moving forward. Jim

It's a special washer called a "Belleville" washer, along with the factory bolt. As can be seen the washer is CONVEX shaped, and heavy duty to retain that shape.

[Ricosan]

Hey Guys,
Thanks to everyone for sticking with me on this until we finally diagnosed the problem. It’s a good feeling that I now know the cause of the problem, but a bit bummed at the extent of the work involved to fix it.
I would take it back to the guy who last worked on it but after the last time I got it back from him, I vowed I would never ever take it to him again. I wife would probably divorce me if I did.
I have since been extremely fortunate to have found a highly qualified and experienced person who has agreed to get my wagon sorted out.

Richard

[19Fordy]

Just one more thought. Perhaps, if possible, it may be a good idea to tighten that "Bellville" washer with an impact wrench.
If not, I hope other Fordbarners will voice their opinion.

[Bored&Stroked]

Hey Gang, just want to clarify one thing - the issue here has nothing to do with the work from Mac VanPelt and crew. When you rebuild a transmission, you don't install this missing part - as there is nothing to hold it on (as it attaches to the rear transmission mount) - that is strictly part of the installation procedure in the car.

I've worked with Mac on many of my own transmission rebuilds - we share tips/ideas all the time, he supplies me with parts, etc.. I have complete faith in what he does, the parts he supplies, etc.

I just wanted to make sure the barn doesn't see this as an issue coming from the transmission rebuilder - as it does not have anything to do with he and his crew.

The good news, is that with a $20 part (and a bit of labor), this car will finally go down the road as it should.

Take care,
B&S

[FlatheadTed]

The slipping out of gear I wouldn't think would be connected to the missing part ,I would be looking farther into what the last guy did ,Ted

[Ricosan]

Good morning,
B&S, you are absolutely right. Mac was great taking care of the original problem with the transmission. The missing inner shell is either the original restorers fault or my shop that reinstalled the transmission after we got it back from Vanpelt.
Ted, before I installed the seal kit with the rubber tube I never had a problem with the transmission. It never jumped out of third gear. After installing the kit, it wanted to “slide” out of third gear. I think it may have been caused by the rubber seal putting too much pressure at the tt at the back of the transmission. I’ve ordered a felt seal from 3rd gen.
Richard

[Terry,OH]

At this point it would be difficult to blame the transmission shift problem on another part like the blue seal since the assembly was compromised by the lack of the inner cup. If the assembly was correct I would doubt the seal is the problem, more likely the bolting of the U-joint as others have mentioned.

Do make sure any seal you install in the outer cup is completely seated in the groove for the seal. Make sure the rotating U-joint has not caused scars in the inside of the front of the torque tube, or on the outer surface of the U-joint. if so sand or lightly grind any proud scars away. The torque tube has to smoothly move up and down on the inner cup which will be coated with grease.

[Bored&Stroked]

The reason the rubber seal caused you to have another problem is because it forced the TT further forward and there was no pivot cup to stop it . . . so then either the ujoint was getting hit by the TT (causing the mainshaft to try to move forward), or the driveshaft was pushing the u-joint forward.

The transmission is probably okay (if you didn't drive it too much since the rubber seal) - hopefully with the missing pivot cup in place, Jed's a millionaire.

BTW, there was probably nothing wrong with the rubber seal - I've used them and had no issue with them.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked

The reason the rubber seal caused you to have another problem is because it forced the TT further forward and there was no pivot cup to stop it . . . so then either the ujoint was getting hit by the TT (causing the mainshaft to try to move forward), or the driveshaft was pushing the u-joint forward.

The transmission is probably okay (if you didn't drive it too much since the rubber seal) - hopefully with the missing pivot cup in place, Jed's a millionaire.

BTW, there was probably nothing wrong with the rubber seal - I've used them and had no issue with them.

Hopefully B&S is correct. It doesn't take much to make the gears come out of synch. It is quite possible the force of the main shaft being pushed forward by the torque tube knocked the trans out of gear. Fingers crossed for you that is the case.

[Ken/Alabama]

I’ll bet it does drive awful with that part missing allowing the torque tube and rear axle to move around. Kinda like steering from the front and rear.

[Ricosan]

Your right Ken. I hope when the inner clamshell is installed I see a big difference.
in the handling.
Richard