The Ford Barn

Tim Ayers · 05-06-2023, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ricosan

Jim TN, yes I have the bell shaped part at the back of the transmission. My one piece clam shell with the tube in the groove pushes against the bell shape thing (mouth?) and forms a seal.
It looks to me like you use only one cover. Either a two piece clamshell that bolts together with a seal in the inside rear groove or a one piece clamshell with a seal that sits in the inside rear groove. Not both pieces. Am I wrong here?
My problem is that I am getting a clicking noise when I tighten the the cs against the back of the transmission. Am I tightening the castle nuts too tight? The seal appears to be working based on my short drive. No leaks.
Richard

Now I’m confused. How is the seal working when that one picture you posted shows most of the lube spit out all around it?

DavidG · 05-06-2023, 09:27 AM

Me too! It can't be working with that gap in it.

Ken/Alabama · 05-06-2023, 09:40 AM

Is the inner cover in place ? It fits over the u- joint and the bell end of the torque tube mates to the rear of it then the cover with the seal holds it all in place. The gasket set will be listed as a U-joint gasket set.

Ricosan · 05-06-2023, 09:41 AM

Hey guys,
Yep, I imagine it would probably eventually leak even with that void is located at 12 o’clock when bolted back up.
My plan is to remove that piece of rubber and replace it with a smaller diameter piece beingvery careful there are no voids at the ends. If this fails, and I still have noise, I’ll install the felt from 3rd gen.
Richard

DavidG · 05-06-2023, 10:43 AM

Sorry, the noise and the seal are unrelated unless as a remotely possible cause, your engine steady rods aren't there or are loose.

Ken/Alabama · 05-06-2023, 11:27 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidG

Sorry, the noise and the seal are unrelated unless as a remotely possible cause, your engine steady rods aren't there or are loose.

I wonder if it has one of those reproduction Lincoln U-joints in it. They aren’t made correctly and can cause all kinds of problems with the transmission.

Ricosan · 05-06-2023, 01:33 PM

Ken, looking at the Vanpelt diagram, I believe all of the parts are there. How would I identify a Lincoln U joint?
Richard

Ken/Alabama · 05-06-2023, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ricosan

Ken, looking at the Vanpelt diagram, I believe all of the parts are there. How would I identify a Lincoln U joint?
Richard

The Lincoln joint has caps with needle bearings and the Ford joint has bushings and you can see the ends of the cross. The only way to see it would be to slide the rear axle back far enough to remove the inner cap .

Ricosan · 05-06-2023, 03:14 PM

Ken, here’s what I’m looking at.
Richard

Bored&Stroked · 05-06-2023, 03:37 PM

Well, you definitely have a big problem that absolutely needs to be solved before you can drive this car - anywhere. A major component of the whole torque-tube system is missing. I'm not sure the actual name, but I call it the "ball or pivot cup". The only way to fix it is to pull the rear-end, or pull the engine and transmission and install it on the back of the transmission.

Torque-Tube-Pivot-Cup.jpg

This is the "ball side" that the torque tube runs up against and pivots on. Whomever put this together either didn't know about this piece, or forgot it . . . or both.

You're completely missing the necessary part, and that is what is screwing with your transmission (the torque-tube is hitting the u-joint). It is a wonder you were able to drive the car at all.

There are multiple ones on eBay at the moment - various prices:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/125910290812

Another:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/37419560779...Bk9SR6zJiaz-YQ

Ken/Alabama · 05-06-2023, 03:44 PM

Yep. That’s one of the Lincoln joints. Your problem is that you’re missing the inner cap. I’d replace that u- joint. The rear axle needs to be slid back to remove it and install the inner cap.

petehoovie · 05-06-2023, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ricosan

Ken, here’s what I’m looking at.
Richard

petehoovie · 05-06-2023, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked

You're completely missing the necessary part, and that is what is screwing with your transmission (the torque-tube is hitting the u-joint). It is a wonder you were able to drive the car at all.

There are multiple ones on eBay at the moment - various prices:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/125910290812

https://www.ebay.com/itm/125910290812

Bored&Stroked · 05-06-2023, 03:51 PM

Note, the rear transmission mount is first installed, then the U-joint is bolted to the transmission output shaft first, then the pivot cup is installed (with gaskets on both sides of it) - and it slides over the four protruding bolt ends on the back of the transmission mount.

Then you put the outer clam-shell piece onto the same 4-studs/bolts that you slid the pivot cup onto. The four nuts that hold the clamshell on will push it against the outer gaskets of the pivot cup and the torque-tube end will ride against it. You always lubricate the pivot cup with heavy grease before you pull the torque-tube against it.

Without the pivot cup, the torque-tube has nothing to ride on and pivot against. Currently it is trying to move forward and is hitting the u-joint, which then causes your "clicking noises" and causes the transmission to not operate correctly. I'm quite surprised you were able to move the dang car at all!

Whomever worked on your car (transmission/rear/torque-tube) - doesn't understand how this stuff all works - sorry to have to say that.

DavidG · 05-06-2023, 04:04 PM

You've got to be kidding! Please post the name of the firm of idiots who left out that cup so that no one else is tempted to use them.

Bored&Stroked · 05-06-2023, 07:40 PM

Hard to imagine all the Hell the owner has been through (time, money, aggravation, etc) - all because of a missing $20 part.

Ricosan · 05-06-2023, 08:23 PM

Wow.
B&S, I think I have the pivot cup. See the first two pics in post #1.
I’m missing the outer clamshell piece that covers the pivot cup? Do you have a picture of the outer clamshell cover?
BTW, here is a picture of the clamshell area before I took it apart.
Richard

Bored&Stroked · 05-06-2023, 09:12 PM

You have the outer clamshell piece because it is integral with your torque-tube. The later ones were split into 2 pieces, while the earlier V8's - at least 32 - 34 had a one-piece version that was slid onto the torque-tube during the manufacturing process. It really wasn't a clamshell - it was a retaining ring that held the front of the torque tube against the pivot cup. So, you're not missing it.

From the looks of your picture, it appears you MIGHT have the pivot cup (at least originally). I believe I see a shiny metal piece against the rear transmission mount. Did you misplace it . . . or have somebody work on the car who might have misplaced or lost it?

In the picture you posted before - it was obviously not there.

petehoovie · 05-06-2023, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ricosan

BTW, here is a picture of the clamshell area before I took it apart.
Richard

DavidG · 05-06-2023, 10:33 PM

Your two photos in #1 show the outer cup as only the outer cup has the formed channel at the back to hold the seal. The inner cup does not have that formed channel. Further, the cup-shaped portion of the outer cup is larger in size than the cup-shaped portion of the inner cup as the former fits over the latter.

05-06-2023, 09:27 AM	#22
DavidG Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: southeastern Michigan Posts: 10,104	Re: Clam shell help Me too! It can't be working with that gap in it.

05-06-2023, 09:40 AM	#23
Ken/Alabama Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 3,263	Re: Clam shell help Is the inner cover in place ? It fits over the u- joint and the bell end of the torque tube mates to the rear of it then the cover with the seal holds it all in place. The gasket set will be listed as a U-joint gasket set.

05-06-2023, 09:41 AM	#24
Ricosan Senior Member Join Date: May 2018 Location: Tallahassee Posts: 375	Re: Clam shell help Hey guys, Yep, I imagine it would probably eventually leak even with that void is located at 12 o’clock when bolted back up. My plan is to remove that piece of rubber and replace it with a smaller diameter piece beingvery careful there are no voids at the ends. If this fails, and I still have noise, I’ll install the felt from 3rd gen. Richard

05-06-2023, 10:43 AM	#25
DavidG Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: southeastern Michigan Posts: 10,104	Re: Clam shell help Sorry, the noise and the seal are unrelated unless as a remotely possible cause, your engine steady rods aren't there or are loose.

05-06-2023, 01:33 PM	#27
Ricosan Senior Member Join Date: May 2018 Location: Tallahassee Posts: 375	Re: Clam shell help Ken, looking at the Vanpelt diagram, I believe all of the parts are there. How would I identify a Lincoln U joint? Richard

05-06-2023, 03:37 PM	#30
Bored&Stroked Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 5,073	Re: Clam shell help Well, you definitely have a big problem that absolutely needs to be solved before you can drive this car - anywhere. A major component of the whole torque-tube system is missing. I'm not sure the actual name, but I call it the "ball or pivot cup". The only way to fix it is to pull the rear-end, or pull the engine and transmission and install it on the back of the transmission. Torque-Tube-Pivot-Cup.jpg This is the "ball side" that the torque tube runs up against and pivots on. Whomever put this together either didn't know about this piece, or forgot it . . . or both. You're completely missing the necessary part, and that is what is screwing with your transmission (the torque-tube is hitting the u-joint). It is a wonder you were able to drive the car at all. There are multiple ones on eBay at the moment - various prices: https://www.ebay.com/itm/125910290812 Another: https://www.ebay.com/itm/37419560779...Bk9SR6zJiaz-YQ

05-06-2023, 03:44 PM	#31
Ken/Alabama Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 3,263	Re: Clam shell help Yep. That’s one of the Lincoln joints. Your problem is that you’re missing the inner cap. I’d replace that u- joint. The rear axle needs to be slid back to remove it and install the inner cap.

05-06-2023, 03:51 PM	#34
Bored&Stroked Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 5,073	Re: Clam shell help Note, the rear transmission mount is first installed, then the U-joint is bolted to the transmission output shaft first, then the pivot cup is installed (with gaskets on both sides of it) - and it slides over the four protruding bolt ends on the back of the transmission mount. Then you put the outer clam-shell piece onto the same 4-studs/bolts that you slid the pivot cup onto. The four nuts that hold the clamshell on will push it against the outer gaskets of the pivot cup and the torque-tube end will ride against it. You always lubricate the pivot cup with heavy grease before you pull the torque-tube against it. Without the pivot cup, the torque-tube has nothing to ride on and pivot against. Currently it is trying to move forward and is hitting the u-joint, which then causes your "clicking noises" and causes the transmission to not operate correctly. I'm quite surprised you were able to move the dang car at all! Whomever worked on your car (transmission/rear/torque-tube) - doesn't understand how this stuff all works - sorry to have to say that. Last edited by Bored&Stroked; 05-07-2023 at 09:15 PM.

05-06-2023, 04:04 PM	#35
DavidG Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: southeastern Michigan Posts: 10,104	Re: Clam shell help You've got to be kidding! Please post the name of the firm of idiots who left out that cup so that no one else is tempted to use them.

05-06-2023, 07:40 PM	#36
Bored&Stroked Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 5,073	Re: Clam shell help Hard to imagine all the Hell the owner has been through (time, money, aggravation, etc) - all because of a missing $20 part. Last edited by Bored&Stroked; 05-06-2023 at 09:16 PM.

05-06-2023, 09:12 PM	#38
Bored&Stroked Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 5,073	Re: Clam shell help You have the outer clamshell piece because it is integral with your torque-tube. The later ones were split into 2 pieces, while the earlier V8's - at least 32 - 34 had a one-piece version that was slid onto the torque-tube during the manufacturing process. It really wasn't a clamshell - it was a retaining ring that held the front of the torque tube against the pivot cup. So, you're not missing it. From the looks of your picture, it appears you MIGHT have the pivot cup (at least originally). I believe I see a shiny metal piece against the rear transmission mount. Did you misplace it . . . or have somebody work on the car who might have misplaced or lost it? In the picture you posted before - it was obviously not there.

05-06-2023, 10:33 PM	#40
DavidG Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: southeastern Michigan Posts: 10,104	Re: Clam shell help Your two photos in #1 show the outer cup as only the outer cup has the formed channel at the back to hold the seal. The inner cup does not have that formed channel. Further, the cup-shaped portion of the outer cup is larger in size than the cup-shaped portion of the inner cup as the former fits over the latter.