What's your "Go To" for a hard head?

[rockfla]

So what is your "Go To" method for removing a "hard head"? Stud motor (not bolts) in particular......and do you find the right harder to remove than the left? Mine is "loose" in the sense of "off the deck" but will not budge beyond that. AND the more I force the back of the head the "more" the front comes off!!! It's so close BUT yet so far away.

[David J]

33-34 Aluminum heads can be real stinkers about this . Yours is moving so tap it down and spray the studs with PB or whatever snake oil you prefer . Probably some buildup in the holes in the head binding on the threads .

[rockfla]

Originally Posted by David J

33-34 Aluminum heads can be real stinkers about this . Yours is moving so tap it down and spray the studs with PB or whatever snake oil you prefer . Probably some buildup in the holes in the head binding on the threads .

Three days of WD-40, PB Blaster & LPS 1.

[David J]

So much for the easy fix . Maybe a couple shims in the center and rock it front-back ? Finesse time ?

Originally Posted by rockfla

Three days of WD-40, PB Blaster & LPS 1.

[JWL]

I have a couple "T" handles I can screw into the sparkplug holes which can give extra pulling power. Usually if I can get some teeter-totter action on the head it will come off.

[flatheadmurre]

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I cheated a notch more...one slidehammer in each outer sparkplug hole.
Slidehammers lets you both pull and push the head back down....and some rustpenetrant of choice.

[oldford2]

I made this lifter from old spark plugs. Helps to wiggle them but be gentle so you don't damage the threads.

Same as JWL's

[Fordestes]

Since you can pull it up a small amount try using wood pieces under the ends ,sides ,top and bottom of the heads , pry up alternately as in a back and forth rocking motion, wood will not damage the metal and act as leverage , a rubber mallet and with the snake oil on the studs as you are already using. and a little patience.

[35fordtn]

I have used hooks welded to the base of a spark plug and used a slide hammer on the hooks..

The local flathead builder here uses air wedges (never tried it myself)

https://www.grainger.com/product/453...g!572999310232!

[rockfla]

There is NO "loose" what so ever in this head.....NONE......what "progress" you see pictured has come with "Extreme" Effort over two days....the front half "somewhat" easier than the back. AND when I say "Extreme" I am surprised as some point I haven't cracked the head. I am afraid, at this point....any negative travel (back down) will result in the same amount of effort required to get "Back" to where I am at now. I have once tried getting the head "as level" as I could BUT "any" effort to move it at that point was futile!!! What is puzzling to me is (and can be seen in my pictures) IS there in NO force applied on the front half of the head......all movement "there" has been achieved AS I have put force on and moved the back of the head??? The slide hammer suggestions are in my thoughts at this point but still open to ANY other ideas.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by 35fordtn

I have used hooks welded to the base of a spark plug and used a slide hammer on the hooks..

The local flathead builder here uses air wedges (never tried it myself)

https://www.grainger.com/product/453...g!572999310232!

Interesting. I've seen those wedges at Home Depot in the tool isle.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by rockfla

So what is your "Go To" method for removing a "hard head"? Stud motor (not bolts) in particular......and do you find the right harder to remove than the left? Mine is "loose" in the sense of "off the deck" but will not budge beyond that. AND the more I force the back of the head the "more" the front comes off!!! It's so close BUT yet so far away.

Have you thought about making some wooden wedges to tap under the head?

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by Tim Ayers

Have you thought about making some wooden wedges to tap under the head?

Like this (see original post).

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by JSeery

Like this (see original post).

Haha. Hiding in plain sight

[flatheadmurre]

The thing is not to put a crazy amount of force on it cause whatever is binding between studs and heads will come to a point and stopp...no matter the amount of force.
Wiggle them and the crud stuck in there will come out one tiny piece each cycle...not the best meditation but it works.

[rockfla]

Originally Posted by Tim Ayers

Have you thought about making some wooden wedges to tap under the head?

Not only yes BUT it is at the point that ANY more force applied to them is "peeling" the wood back!!!!

[Tim Ayers]

Hmmm. If you have access to a torch, heat the head side around the stud holes to see if they'll enlarge enough to get past the studs.

[deuce_roadster]

I have a special very THIN hole saw like tool that just fits over the stud that goes down and cuts the aluminum oxidation that is causing the problem. This tool is made to be used by hand I think. I have never had to use it but understand how it works. The metal is about the thickness of a razor blade. Later today I will post a picture of it in my MISC album.

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by deuce_roadster

I have a special very THIN hole saw like tool that just fits over the stud that goes down and cuts the aluminum oxidation that is causing the problem. This tool is made to be used by hand I think. I have never had to use it but understand how it works. The metal is about the thickness of a razor blade. Later today I will post a picture of it in my MISC album.

Don't think these heads are aluminum.

[deuce_roadster]

True, but it might work, the issue is the same. Pictures posted in MISC album. You would certainly have to go slow.

[rockfla]

Originally Posted by deuce_roadster

I have a special very THIN hole saw like tool that just fits over the stud that goes down and cuts the aluminum oxidation that is causing the problem. This tool is made to be used by hand I think. I have never had to use it but understand how it works. The metal is about the thickness of a razor blade. Later today I will post a picture of it in my MISC album.

I wondered also, since its the middle very back stud, the one the body ground strap is fastened too, IF the electrical current has "some" effect in conjunction with the "rust" factor and/or any elctrolisis associated with anti freeze.

[Floyd]

I doubt corrosion has any thing to do with it since we are not talking aluminum heads. The original problem is probably a result of "the last guy" in there decided to chase- cleanup-retap the threads in the block. this always makes them crooked and the studs will become a locking device when installed and torqued. An engine that has never been messed with and rebuilt without screwing up the threads will enjoy dropping the heads on without interference. They will also lift off without problems. The original Ford thread in the block cannot be duplicated and should not be touched except with a wire brush.
Been there, seen it.
My experience

[JSeery]

Might try getting the head back flat on the block and try removing the offending studs.

[rockfla]

Originally Posted by JSeery

Might try getting the head back flat on the block and try removing the offending studs.

Just discussing that "very" thing on the phone with "Hoop". My only thought IS "IF" the head is that tuff then how hard might the stud be to get out??? Looks like my next move anyway!!!

[Mart]

Try and work out which stud is holding tight. Move each end up and down and observe which one it is rocking on. Put wedges just to the left of the tight one and lift the right side (or vice versa depending on the position of the tight one). Use a bit of savvy rather than brute force. Drench it in the penetrating fluid of your choice. Knock it back down. Lift it back up. get it moving. Get the oil in there.

I had one like that and was able to get it up far enough to slip a thick cable tie through the gap. I was able then to rock it on that and move the other end. I then added a cable tie at that end, and kept working at it adding cable ties as shims. Anything would do, I just wanted something that would not damage anything. Knocking it down on one side will lift the other if a fulcrum is in place (cable ties)

In your case get one end as high as it will go and put cable ties stacked together across the head face near to the tight spot. Then knock the high side down, lifting the tight spot hopefully. Then lift the one end again and put another cable tie on the stack. repeat as often as needed until you have effectively jacked the head up bit by bit until it comes off.

Easier to do than describe but it did work for me once.

Mart.

[Tim Ayers]

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Originally Posted by rockfla

Just discussing that "very" thing on the phone with "Hoop". My only thought IS "IF" the head is that tuff then how hard might the stud be to get out??? Looks like my next move anyway!!!

I would think the offending studs are toast at this point.

[Hoop]

Apologize that Rock and I could not hook up a conference call with everyone.

In his photos, it is apparent that the front of the head is raised higher than the rear. This alone will bind the head and get it "cocked." Lifting it "level" will minimize the binding. It should not be necessary to return the head to flush against the block. Messing with the studs would be a last resort.

Should be noted that this is a very original car and the heads probably never removed. I've not seen the original head gaskets but understand they were steel ... but at this point, the head is free of the block. The other side was removed with no problems.

(Under the weather so no house calls ... )

[35fordtn]

Hoop, Rockfla,
I would seriously consider the slide hammer approach I mentioned.. That has always worked well for me long in the last.. Alternate from front to back obviously.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by deuce_roadster

True, but it might work, the issue is the same. Pictures posted in MISC album. You would certainly have to go slow.

deuce's hole saw from his "Misc" album! DD

[Hoop]

Michael, the slide hammer technique sounds good but that's completely Rock's department. He's finally able to work on his projects in his new shop ... and doesn't need anyone hanging over his shoulder.

(He does allow me to tune up his distributors though.)

[leon bee]

One at a time mig the nuts to the most suspect studs and remove?

[lonewolf]

Put some 3/8 rope in the spark plug holes and hand turn over the motor.

[slowforty]

flatheadmurre has the solution. that is the way mine were removed

[slowforty]

flatheadmurre has the solution. That is the way mine came off.

[Jim44]

IMHO, don't forget the value of compressed air. Use the alternate up/down movement with favorite rust buster combined with blowing out the holes as part of each up/down cycle. Only two things in the hole - stud and corrosion. Each time you blow out some minor corrosion,,you will reduce friction a small amount. Add patience and you should get there. If it is moving some, it will release eventually.

[rockfla]

Originally Posted by Hoop

Michael, the slide hammer technique sounds good but that's completely Rock's department. He's finally able to work on his projects in his new shop ... and doesn't need anyone hanging over his shoulder.

(He does allow me to tune up his distributors though.)

Hoop
You are welcome at my house "ANY" time you wish to come and stand over my shoulder as much as you like. AS I am NOW taking a "more hands on approach, I have eaten my share of crow on my "knowledge" of these flatheads and constantly learn so I am still a "student" to any teacher available.
Per our phone conversation yesterday, I got it back down on the deck, tried "several" attempts to bring it up as even as possible....to NO avail. It gets to about 75% off and stops dead on that one middle back stud. When its back down on the deck, I can shim the front of the head a little and grab the neck of the water outlet and move it back and forth enough to see PB Blaster getting squished out from around that stud BUT up to a certain point NO moving beyond it. After an hour last night I feel my head isn't quite as "hard" as this head and JSeery's post about "removing the stud" kept ringing in my head SO I got it back down enough to either A) Jam a coupe of Jam nuts together and back the stud out OR B) as another suggested...Weld a nut to it and back it out. That is where I'm at. AGAIN, you are most welcome to come and see for yourself in case I'm having "paralysis of analysis" OR for some reason tunnel vision and missing "something" BUT I feel I have remained patient enough and been through in my attempt.

Thanks everyone for ALL the responses, as always it is greatly appreciated.

[Hoop]

Do not try to remove any studs. Odds are that you will break one ... and you'll be hating it.

I like Michael's slide hammer approach if you can fab up an eye hook to screw into the spark plug hole.

(Thanks for the flattery.)

[G.M.]

Originally Posted by flatheadmurre

The thing is not to put a crazy amount of force on it cause whatever is binding between studs and heads will come to a point and stopp...no matter the amount of force.
Wiggle them and the crud stuck in there will come out one tiny piece each cycle...not the best meditation but it works.

K.R.Wilson made very thin hollow drills that went over the
studs and drilled the corrosive material out. I have a set of
these, they are about 3 inches long 1/2" OD and 7/16" ID.
You have to keep spaying to lubricate with Rust Buster and
working in and out to remove the junk and keep from binding
up the drill. I found these years ago at an EFV8 flea market
in Penna. They were in a wooden tray with other drills I think
I paid $3.00 for the works but I recconised the drills from
seeing them a K.R.Willson cat. G.M.

[raybee]

It appears the head is a lot of bind. I would remove the wedges and get the head back down close to the block and level, then spray around the stud with PB Blaster. Screw on a head nut on leaving a gap between nut and head. Tap with hammer to loosen rust. Might take a few tries, but could work. Patience is your friend. Ray

[raybee]

It appears the head is a lot of bind. I would remove the wedges and get the head back down close to the block and level, then spray around the stud with PB Blaster. Screw on a head nut on leaving a gap between nut and head. Tap with hammer to loosen rust. Might take a few tries, but could work. Patience is your friend. Ray

[35fordtn]

Originally Posted by G.M.

K.R.Wilson made very thin hollow drills that went over the
studs and drilled the corrosive material out. I have a set of
these, they are about 3 inches long 1/2" OD and 7/16" ID.
You have to keep spaying to lubricate with Rust Buster and
working in and out to remove the junk and keep from binding
up the drill. I found these years ago at an EFV8 flea market
in Penna. They were in a wooden tray with other drills I think
I paid $3.00 for the works but I recconised the drills from
seeing them a K.R.Willson cat. G.M.

These thin wall hole saws are neat and I would love to have one for engines with Alum. Heads. Wonder if something of modern manufacture is available.

[rockfla]

Okay, as of Wednesday 2/26.....I pulled all wedges and tapped the head back down. At this point I can "slightly" lift the front half of the head off the deck and grab it and the water neck and "rock" the head back and too. I can see PB Blaster getting squished out around the "Offending Lone Stud" (Very back, middle stud/Ground strap stud) along with air bubbles SO I know its getting down the stud. SO I push the head back flat and at that point use wedges to lift the head EQUALLY at all four corners. AT this point ANY upward movement of the back part of the head HAS TO BE done with persuasion!!! It WILL NOT move without "some" help. The front half or so of the head is free as a bird. The back half gets to were pictured below (1) and STOPS. Will not move beyond that point. I can pull all the wedges at that point and the head WILL NOT MOVE, WILL NOT ROCK BACK AND FORTH. STUCK!!!!! I can gently tap the front half of the head with the wood handle of the hammer and it falls freely back toward the block. The back have has to be "Persuaded" back down. I repeated this process "several" time INCLUDING trying to "persuade" the back half "more" at the point of sticking to NO AVAIL. I am trying not to have to remove the OFFENDING stud, as HOOP mentioned.....IF it breaks then I'm to the point of pulling the engine.......BUT every minute spent otherwise at this point has been futile at best. Photo (2) EVEN at angle just appears that there is not as much "free" space around that stud as opposed to the others???? Maybe its an optical illusion BUT it is "tight" to say the least. SUGGESTIONS?????

[tubman]

Why is the one stud so much shorter that the others. Maybe it is a later replacement that is bent or something?

[rockfla]

Originally Posted by tubman

Why is the one stud so much shorter that the others. Maybe it is a later replacement that is bent or something?

That is not the "problem stud". The "longer" one in the middle Picture 2. When I have the head back down "close" to flat on the deck and can rock the head back and forth, all of the studs but that one you can see the head move around the studs......that one stud you see VERY Little movement IF any....IT appears that the stud is "flexing" or moving with the head at that point. I don't get it!!! AND AGAIN, looking at my pictures THAT ONE stud doesn't look to have the space around the stud like ALL the other studs do!!!

[Mart]

Try this.

Lift head as far as it will go, I would expect the right side to be higher than the left.

Knock the wedges in more or less in line with No.4 plug. (Ensure valves are down in that area).

With carefully considered force, knock the right side DOWN.

Hopefully the head will pivot on the wedges and raise the left.

Repeat the process and little by little (hopefully) it will raise until released.

This is what I was trying to describe before but I used stacked cable ties instead of the wooden wedges. They're probably less compressable.

Mart.

[Willit Stop]

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I was wondering if that stud is actually a modified bolt. You could knock the head down, double nut it and see if it will back out. This probably won't work but it's worth a try. Just don't use any unnecessary force that will cause more problems than you already have.
Marts idea seems like the best one.

[rockfla]

Finally, Leap Year success!! With a lot of info shared, and use of a little bit of ALL the head finally came off. As you can see by the picture the one stud was from end of thread to block completely rusted. Saturday morning I started by following FLATHEADMURRE & Mart (and a few others) and started flat and moving it up and down, rocking it side to side. It was STILL tight at first BUT over time it started to move a little more free.....to a point. SO then I would get it as far as it would go, coat the stud in PB Blaster then work it back up and down and on the "down" take a rag and wipe the "crud" off the stud. THEN I would bring it as far "UP" as I could, re-coat with PB Blaster and THEN shoot compressed air around the stud a la JIM44 & RAYBEE's advice. Then I pushed it back down some and repeated the above process again, clean the stud off, coat with PB Blaster, then shoot compressed air and work it up and down, rock it every which way possible. It took about 45 minutes of sweat equity BUT success in the end. JSEERY I did give the ole' "remove the stud" a "bit" of a try at first BUT was afraid to put too much pressure on the jam nuts and stud for fear of snapping it. Thanks AGAIN for all the input and encouragement.

[Mart]

Good work, glad you got it off, Rock.

[flatheadmurre]

Good progress...things that fight back is more rewarding in the end...
Now for the assembly bring out the BIG can of never seize and next mechanic will be very grateful

[tubman]

Congratulations on a battle well fought!

Now that this is successfully over, I have to look back humorously at a thread a couple of weeks ago, when someone had the temerity to suggest I didn't know what I was talking about when I suggested that one of the pitfalls with installing new heads was getting the old ones off.

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...94#post1850094

[rockfla]

Originally Posted by flatheadmurre

Good progress...things that fight back is more rewarding in the end...
Now for the assembly bring out the BIG can of never seize and next mechanic will be very grateful

Yes, cleaned all the studs with TWO grades of scotch-brite pads, chased all the threads with a die chaser and have it all cleaned while the heads are at the machine shop. Debating on replacing that one stud IF I should or IF once cleaned and anti-seized will be okay? Tubeman, you are SO correct.

[JSeery]

Way to go!