The Ford Barn

deuce lover · 02-26-2018, 06:45 AM

Back in Jan a member here posted a reference to an estate auction in MN.It was the Tom Felber estate auction being conducted by Grafe Auction Co.A nice original 34 tudor plus tons of early Ford parts ,porcelain signs etc.After looking over the lots I decided to register and place a bid plus follow the auction "live".The lot I bid on was an assortment of gauges which included a 33-34 oil Chex and separately an ammeter.Pics looked good and I even called Grafe Auction Co from France to to verify what I was bidding on.I happened to be the winning bidder at $60.What a score or I thought so.
They had a onsite company that packaged the items to ship if the winner could not be present.I had them shipped to an address in CA and then that person on shipped them to me here in France.Lo and behold the Oil Chex and orig 33-34 Amp were missing.I immediately contacted John at Grafe Auction Co and they said they would investigate.Paul, who was in charge of that particular auction replied a few days later and said the pictures were taken way before the auction date and those 2 gauges were removed by a consultant and listed separately but the pictures were not updated.Needless to say I was pissed and went round and round with them.The Co president (Judd) even called me to express their apology and would refund me.Yes I got my $60 + their 18% commission and shipping.Paul in his email said I hope you understand. Understand? I told them that if a bidder cannot be present he or she takes their chances because there is no guarantee you will get what you saw to bid on.
That was my first time participating in an online live auction and with Grafe Auction Co.Well, its my last.

skidmarks · 02-26-2018, 07:13 AM

Large items like a car or machinery you might be ok but small box lots in a auction like you described get moved around. I know 2 guys that go through every estate auction moving stuff around and hidding stuff under general junk to get better deals. But even the auctioneers tell bidders if you see something you want by itself to pull it out of a larger lot and they will sell it by itself.

Atleast you got a refund

DavidG · 02-26-2018, 09:22 AM

I had a different unfortunate experience as an absentee bidder a couple of years ago in the auction of the big collection of a long-time friend who had passed. I won several items and had them shipped to me, which the auction company did promptly. When they arrived, one was for something that I did not bid on and two that I had won were MIA. They were small NOS '55 T-bird trim items. I called the auction house and they promptly investigated and refunded the full cost of the items. Their conclusion was that the items were stolen, which given the items was believable as they were small, shiny, and pocket-sized.

It happens in the hobby, sad to say. Like disappearing '32 ash trays and commercial/truck radiator caps taking flight from vehicles left unattended at car shows.

AnthonyG · 02-26-2018, 10:06 AM

Guess it depends on the site / auction. Where peop’s involved always potential for screw-ups. Being so far I do simpathize & understand the frustration. I know a lot of the guys hate Ebay, but I’ve had very good experience both as a buyer & a seller. On the smalls I don’t sweat it too much & even though I’ve been fortunate so far I never expect anything to look as nice as the pic’s especially the big stuff. Pics alway look better than real deal. I did buy a car ( not an Early ford so won’t mention type) on line auction. Auction had enough advance notice & I arranged for an independent inspection. All looked good I bid and won. Car was as the inspection report indicated. I would never buy a large potentially expensive item from just the pic’s on line or remotely at auction without an inspection. As I said cheap or smalls I take the buyer beware chance.

Fordestes · 02-26-2018, 11:04 AM

Thanks for the heads up on this type of business , I will never bid without being present to inspect and transports my purchases.

barnfind08 · 02-26-2018, 11:23 AM

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Grafe Auction does a very good job. I have been very satisfied with all purchases. The Felber auction I was present. The gauges you saw were in one box that's just a picture. When those came up for sale they were laid out on a table and sold choice. The oil chex sold for around $250.00, ammeter was 50-60, can't remember the other items. I had all those items already so did not bid. That's how all auctions are run. I bid in a lot of them.

JSeery · 02-26-2018, 11:27 AM

The auctions I have been to there are so many items and they go through them so quickly, it is mostly a mad house. I'm not sure how you would keep track of your items being there if you didn't stay with them every second.

34pickup · 02-26-2018, 11:47 AM

I went to one tool auction where there were several tubs of misc tools. I was waiting for one of them to come up to bid that had stuff in it I wanted. Well, the auctioneer auctioned the first tub for x amount of dollars and low and behold he asked the winner how many tubs he wanted for that price and he took all of them.
Is that the normal way these work?
Thats the last time I went to an auction by that company.

deuce lover · 02-26-2018, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barnfind08

Grafe Auction does a very good job. I have been very satisfied with all purchases. The Felber auction I was present. The gauges you saw were in one box that's just a picture. When those came up for sale they were laid out on a table and sold choice. The oil chex sold for around $250.00, ammeter was 50-60, can't remember the other items. I had all those items already so did not bid. That's how all auctions are run. I bid in a lot of them.

So absentee bidders basically take their chances .No update or change was indicated on line.

JSeery · 02-26-2018, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 34pickup

I went to one tool auction where there were several tubs of misc tools. I was waiting for one of them to come up to bid that had stuff in it I wanted. Well, the auctioneer auctioned the first tub for x amount of dollars and low and behold he asked the winner how many tubs he wanted for that price and he took all of them.
Is that the normal way these work?
Thats the last time I went to an auction by that company.

My experience is they want the stuff sold as quickly and easily as possible!

J Franklin · 02-26-2018, 12:31 PM

The auctioneers job is to clear out everything as fast as possible. I bought a lot once and they had my # on the wrong lot I never figured out how that happened. I refused the purchase.

ford38v8 · 02-26-2018, 12:36 PM

My first collector car was bought at a Silvers auction in Reno. I was young and dumb, an easy mark. I didn't know how to stop bidding (against the shills) and paid twice as much as it was worth!

The car was a 36 3W with skin deep beauty, which would have cost me that much again to make it right. I should have known better, but I was a greenhorn with money to burn.

I wised up during the drive home, and spent a week in negotiations to get my money back. It cost me 10% of the purchase price to be rid of the thing, but I still consider it a cheap lesson to this day!

Knowing my auction fever vulnerability, I have never attended an auction since!

TagMan · 02-26-2018, 01:00 PM

Things happen, mistakes are made and people are sometimes disappointed. They made good & apologized for the error. Life is not perfect.

FortyNiner · 02-26-2018, 01:13 PM

The work done by Grafe for the Little Dearborn sales was so-so, at best. The lot descriptions were often poor and sometimes just flat wrong. The pickup process was up for grabs. Caveat emptor.

itslow · 02-26-2018, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barnfind08

...The gauges you saw were in one box that's just a picture. When those came up for sale they were laid out on a table and sold choice...

...That's how all auctions are run. I bid in a lot of them.

That's fine if no online bidding is being done. However, if online bidding is an option, then the auctioneer needs to stick by what is shown in the photos for each individual lot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 34pickup

...the auctioneer auctioned the first tub for x amount of dollars and low and behold he asked the winner how many tubs he wanted for that price and he took all of them.
Is that the normal way these work?

Yes, that's a common method, but not all are run this way. It depends upon the individual auction.

deuce lover · 02-26-2018, 02:25 PM

[QUOTE=itslow;1598238]That's fine if no online bidding is being done. However, if online bidding is an option, then the auctioneer needs to stick by what is shown in the photos for each individual lot.

I placed my bid a week before the auction so there was time to inform me of the change.

Randy in ca · 02-26-2018, 03:37 PM

I agree that all of the mentioned live auction procedures are common, but for those that include online bidding with a picture of the items being bid on, to alter the items being purchased constitutes fraud unless either all the bidders are notified and/or they are given the opportunity to cancel their bids. Probably why they refunded your money so easily - they've been thru it before.

AnthonyG · 02-26-2018, 03:46 PM

Sounds like Grafe realized they screwed up and covered expenses incurred plus refund. Not that I wouldn't be pissed but at least they were fair in response. Many aren't. I'd say fraud if they didn't make good on the loss but they did.

JSeery · 02-26-2018, 04:05 PM

Think some of the issue is small amounts of money doen't warrent time spent on the auctions side (at least in their mind).

Russian · 02-26-2018, 04:21 PM

I also registered for the sole purpose of bidding on the Felber auction online. It was a weekday so us simpletons had to work. Stuff was going high, and when it came to the Strombergs I was mostly after, whoever was doing the online portion couldn't even remotely keep up with whatever cluster was going on onsite. I think the 97 and 94 lots got combined as well as turned into a pick-and-choose melee - by the time it was sorted out online, onsite bidder took it all. I'm no stranger to auctions, and that was a big 'ol disappointing mess from where I was sitting. If you're going to have on online option, make sure it's online friendly.

02-26-2018, 06:45 AM	#1
deuce lover Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern France Posts: 5,307	Internet auction experience,NOT Good Back in Jan a member here posted a reference to an estate auction in MN.It was the Tom Felber estate auction being conducted by Grafe Auction Co.A nice original 34 tudor plus tons of early Ford parts ,porcelain signs etc.After looking over the lots I decided to register and place a bid plus follow the auction "live".The lot I bid on was an assortment of gauges which included a 33-34 oil Chex and separately an ammeter.Pics looked good and I even called Grafe Auction Co from France to to verify what I was bidding on.I happened to be the winning bidder at $60.What a score or I thought so. They had a onsite company that packaged the items to ship if the winner could not be present.I had them shipped to an address in CA and then that person on shipped them to me here in France.Lo and behold the Oil Chex and orig 33-34 Amp were missing.I immediately contacted John at Grafe Auction Co and they said they would investigate.Paul, who was in charge of that particular auction replied a few days later and said the pictures were taken way before the auction date and those 2 gauges were removed by a consultant and listed separately but the pictures were not updated.Needless to say I was pissed and went round and round with them.The Co president (Judd) even called me to express their apology and would refund me.Yes I got my $60 + their 18% commission and shipping.Paul in his email said I hope you understand. Understand? I told them that if a bidder cannot be present he or she takes their chances because there is no guarantee you will get what you saw to bid on. That was my first time participating in an online live auction and with Grafe Auction Co.Well, its my last. Last edited by deuce lover; 02-26-2018 at 11:20 AM.

02-26-2018, 07:13 AM	#2
skidmarks Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: newark, delaware Posts: 3,735	Re: Internet auction experience,NOT Good Large items like a car or machinery you might be ok but small box lots in a auction like you described get moved around. I know 2 guys that go through every estate auction moving stuff around and hidding stuff under general junk to get better deals. But even the auctioneers tell bidders if you see something you want by itself to pull it out of a larger lot and they will sell it by itself. Atleast you got a refund

02-26-2018, 09:22 AM	#3
DavidG Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: southeastern Michigan Posts: 10,102	Re: Internet auction experience,NOT Good I had a different unfortunate experience as an absentee bidder a couple of years ago in the auction of the big collection of a long-time friend who had passed. I won several items and had them shipped to me, which the auction company did promptly. When they arrived, one was for something that I did not bid on and two that I had won were MIA. They were small NOS '55 T-bird trim items. I called the auction house and they promptly investigated and refunded the full cost of the items. Their conclusion was that the items were stolen, which given the items was believable as they were small, shiny, and pocket-sized. It happens in the hobby, sad to say. Like disappearing '32 ash trays and commercial/truck radiator caps taking flight from vehicles left unattended at car shows.

02-26-2018, 10:06 AM	#4
AnthonyG Senior Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Pa. Posts: 2,174	Re: Internet auction experience,NOT Good Guess it depends on the site / auction. Where peop’s involved always potential for screw-ups. Being so far I do simpathize & understand the frustration. I know a lot of the guys hate Ebay, but I’ve had very good experience both as a buyer & a seller. On the smalls I don’t sweat it too much & even though I’ve been fortunate so far I never expect anything to look as nice as the pic’s especially the big stuff. Pics alway look better than real deal. I did buy a car ( not an Early ford so won’t mention type) on line auction. Auction had enough advance notice & I arranged for an independent inspection. All looked good I bid and won. Car was as the inspection report indicated. I would never buy a large potentially expensive item from just the pic’s on line or remotely at auction without an inspection. As I said cheap or smalls I take the buyer beware chance. __________________ Nomad

02-26-2018, 11:04 AM	#5
Fordestes Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 886	Re: Internet auction experience,NOT Good Thanks for the heads up on this type of business , I will never bid without being present to inspect and transports my purchases.

02-26-2018, 11:23 AM	#6
barnfind08 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 893	Re: Internet auction experience,NOT Good Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Grafe Auction does a very good job. I have been very satisfied with all purchases. The Felber auction I was present. The gauges you saw were in one box that's just a picture. When those came up for sale they were laid out on a table and sold choice. The oil chex sold for around $250.00, ammeter was 50-60, can't remember the other items. I had all those items already so did not bid. That's how all auctions are run. I bid in a lot of them.

02-26-2018, 11:27 AM	#7
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: Internet auction experience,NOT Good The auctions I have been to there are so many items and they go through them so quickly, it is mostly a mad house. I'm not sure how you would keep track of your items being there if you didn't stay with them every second.

02-26-2018, 11:47 AM	#8
34pickup Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Huntsville Al Posts: 1,526	Re: Internet auction experience,NOT Good I went to one tool auction where there were several tubs of misc tools. I was waiting for one of them to come up to bid that had stuff in it I wanted. Well, the auctioneer auctioned the first tub for x amount of dollars and low and behold he asked the winner how many tubs he wanted for that price and he took all of them. Is that the normal way these work? Thats the last time I went to an auction by that company. __________________ Matt 24:36-41

02-26-2018, 12:31 PM	#11
J Franklin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oregon Posts: 5,965	Re: Internet auction experience,NOT Good The auctioneers job is to clear out everything as fast as possible. I bought a lot once and they had my # on the wrong lot I never figured out how that happened. I refused the purchase.

02-26-2018, 12:36 PM	#12
ford38v8 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 6,646	Re: Internet auction experience,NOT Good My first collector car was bought at a Silvers auction in Reno. I was young and dumb, an easy mark. I didn't know how to stop bidding (against the shills) and paid twice as much as it was worth! The car was a 36 3W with skin deep beauty, which would have cost me that much again to make it right. I should have known better, but I was a greenhorn with money to burn. I wised up during the drive home, and spent a week in negotiations to get my money back. It cost me 10% of the purchase price to be rid of the thing, but I still consider it a cheap lesson to this day! Knowing my auction fever vulnerability, I have never attended an auction since! __________________ Alan

02-26-2018, 01:00 PM	#13
TagMan Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Alvaton, Kentucky, USA Posts: 955	Re: Internet auction experience,NOT Good Things happen, mistakes are made and people are sometimes disappointed. They made good & apologized for the error. Life is not perfect.

02-26-2018, 01:13 PM	#14
FortyNiner Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: u-rah-rah-Wisconsin Posts: 1,137	Re: Internet auction experience,NOT Good The work done by Grafe for the Little Dearborn sales was so-so, at best. The lot descriptions were often poor and sometimes just flat wrong. The pickup process was up for grabs. Caveat emptor. __________________ 19 and 49 F1 - jes' like Henry II built 1946 Deluxe - as Henry built it

02-26-2018, 02:25 PM	#16
deuce lover Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern France Posts: 5,307	Re: Internet auction experience,NOT Good [QUOTE=itslow;1598238]That's fine if no online bidding is being done. However, if online bidding is an option, then the auctioneer needs to stick by what is shown in the photos for each individual lot. I placed my bid a week before the auction so there was time to inform me of the change.

02-26-2018, 03:37 PM	#17
Randy in ca Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,647	Re: Internet auction experience,NOT Good I agree that all of the mentioned live auction procedures are common, but for those that include online bidding with a picture of the items being bid on, to alter the items being purchased constitutes fraud unless either all the bidders are notified and/or they are given the opportunity to cancel their bids. Probably why they refunded your money so easily - they've been thru it before.

02-26-2018, 03:46 PM	#18
AnthonyG Senior Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Pa. Posts: 2,174	Re: Internet auction experience,NOT Good Sounds like Grafe realized they screwed up and covered expenses incurred plus refund. Not that I wouldn't be pissed but at least they were fair in response. Many aren't. I'd say fraud if they didn't make good on the loss but they did. __________________ Nomad

02-26-2018, 04:05 PM	#19
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: Internet auction experience,NOT Good Think some of the issue is small amounts of money doen't warrent time spent on the auctions side (at least in their mind).

02-26-2018, 04:21 PM	#20
Russian Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 1	Re: Internet auction experience,NOT Good I also registered for the sole purpose of bidding on the Felber auction online. It was a weekday so us simpletons had to work. Stuff was going high, and when it came to the Strombergs I was mostly after, whoever was doing the online portion couldn't even remotely keep up with whatever cluster was going on onsite. I think the 97 and 94 lots got combined as well as turned into a pick-and-choose melee - by the time it was sorted out online, onsite bidder took it all. I'm no stranger to auctions, and that was a big 'ol disappointing mess from where I was sitting. If you're going to have on online option, make sure it's online friendly.