Question on 1932 Ford Frame tag

[SteveV.]

Hello, I apologize if someone has already asked this question but I have searched and searched and I can't seem to find what this tag/vin/plate means. I am looking to purchase a 1932 ford roadster recently restored, has a fiberglass body, steel frame, chevy 350, and so on and so on. My question is that the seller states he has the PA title showing it is registered as a 32 ford, the tag on the frame says "B1210044" (if my memory serves me correctly) Can anyone help with decoding this? any help is greatly appreciated. Thank you .

[rotorwrench]

Mac VanPelt's web-site is used a lot for the Vin number checks. http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/f...ialnumbers.htm
The "B" indicates a 4-cylinder engine but the number is in the 34 range. There are likely quite a few 1932 clones out there that have an early Ford number of some sort but it doesn't make them genuine bona fide deuces either.

I've never seen a fiberglass frame yet but plenty of bodies use the glass.

[SteveV.]

thank you, sorry I meant fiberglass body/steel frame

[DavidG]

In the U.S., '32 V-8 VINs (engine numbers originally) began with an '18' prefix followed by a dash and then up six additional digits no greater than 209,000 (in round numbers). '32 four-cylinder VINs (also engine numbers originally) began with either an AB or B followed by a dash and then seven digits beginning with 5, but no greater than 5180000 (in round numbers). So, your "B1210044" would appear to have been one that was not created by Ford and that it was likely done in recent times.

The above pertains to '32 model passenger cars and commercial chassis. The big trucks had VIN prefixes with more characters.

[deuce lover]

First of all the "B"'s all began with 5 million so that number if an authority wants to research it ,there is a problem.2nd 32 frames were all stamped with the VIN - no tags.I suggest buyer beware.IMO.

[SteveV.]

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this is all helpful information, the paint is not perfect but the rest of the car is very nice. I believe he will be asking about 20k but I think I might look around a bit more

[bluardun]

If Pa. recognizes this as the number assigned to the car, OK.
The '32 Ford 4 cylinder numbers started with *B-5,000,001*.

[Charlie Stephens]

As the previous posts indicate it is not a Ford number. Any chance it was assigned by a state DMV? Is there anything else on the tag?

Charlie Stephens

[SteveV.]

no just a metal tag on the frame with B1210044. I was worried that it was not an original frame as I was hoping for. I did not get to see the title myself at this point to see what the title reflects.

[Andy]

Sounds like an aftermarket frame. Look for the holes near the steering box to mount the side mounted spare arms. Look for rivets or welding of the crossmembers.
I think a better discription is that it was recently assembled and not restored as it was never that way before.

[SteveV.]

the frame was boxed in and painted, I did not recognize any holes or rivets, welding yes an abundant amount

[Bruce Lancaster]

The big question is probably whether or not the state you are in will accept it and give you proper registration. Behind that is the question of who created that number, made the tag, and attached it to the frame. If anyone at your DMV cares about things at all, the answer to that question better be a State vehicle authority. If the owner himself made up a number, stamped a piece of tin, and attached it, it is somewhere between meaningless and a felony if questions are asked. Only a manufacturer or a state can generate a valid number, and if that tag is from a state you are all set.
If there are questions probably everything should be done AT the DMV...fork over the papers, and if a title comes back with your name on it pay him. If they take his paperwork and start a major conference with a supervisor...deny everything and hit the ground running!
This is more than one event, too. If a bad number gets registered due to sloppy standards and lazy clerks, it can still bite you...the car may prove unsaleable in the future when someone looks closely or an insurance claim could be denied.

[jim1932]

Fiberglass body and Chevy motor....who cares if it is an original 32 frame.

[Bruce Lancaster]

Well, the number ain't Ford and if it were having it on a tag AND that on a repro frame thoroughly invalidates it...
But if that tag was made up by a state agency on the tag used for assigned by state serials it is a good number. If the owner just made it up, stamped it on a piece of metal, and attached it to the repro frame and flim-flammed it through a careless DMV, it is highly illegitimate and at some point in the future it will lead to trouble like inability to sell or register or ineligibility for insurance payment after an accident...standards have been getting stricter over the years, and at some point if it is neither factory stamped or state assigned it isn't going to fly.
The more organized states and insurance companies have the reference books and can easily recognize a do-it-yourself number.

[Karl Wescott]

On the lines of what Bruce is saying, before buying I would suggest checking with PA first, to assure that the title is valid with PA. That done check with your state DMV to make sure there will be no issues. Then make a deal.

As to being "original" thats semantics. A fiberglass body/aftermarket frame/350 car is certainly not the common mass produced with lots of duplicates built in Michigan in 1932, so it could be called "original". Enough tounge in cheek. If you buy it enjoy it for what it is, and dont let the detractors affect you for what it is not.

[Bruce Lancaster]

KW...you are THE MAN in the repro body industry.
What would you tell a customer headed home with a new frame and body about proper registration? I know it varies a lot by state...
I know lots of '32's out there, both on original and on repro frames, have highly illegitimate paperwork...old title purchased online, original Ford numbers punched into a new frame, aftermarket little tags with numbers punched in...all likely to trigger something between difficulty and felony down the road if someone with a good manual inspects the heap. What is the proper way?

[Karl Wescott]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lancaster

KW...you are THE MAN in the repro body industry.
What would you tell a customer headed home with a new frame and body about proper registration? I know it varies a lot by state...
I know lots of '32's out there, both on original and on repro frames, have highly illegitimate paperwork...old title purchased online, original Ford numbers punched into a new frame, aftermarket little tags with numbers punched in...all likely to trigger something between difficulty and felony down the road if someone with a good manual inspects the heap. What is the proper way?

Number 1. Check with your individual state for rules and procedures. Contact both the DMV and research the relevant statute and administrative rules (easily accessable on the web for the most part) as the DMV may not be familiar with uncommon stuff like titleing a hobbiest constructed vehicle.

Number 2. Keep all your reciepts, especially those for major components such as the motor, frame, and body. If you do your own build take photos. One of the key questions the DMV will have is do you truley own the stuff.

Many states are "very easy" and allow a car to be titled as to what it looks like either outright "1932 Ford Roadster", or branded "1932 Ford Roadster Replica" or "1932 Ford Street Rod". Generally states which generate income from title fees on a flat rate or a vehicle value are easiest. States like California which charge a very high fees for registration for new cars and low fees for older cars are often "hard" as their income is based on the year shown on the title.

Most states consider any part of the vehicle to be replaceable. In those states you can replace the motor, then the frame, then the body on an original titled vehicle and be legitimate. Rules for applying numbers to frames and bodies vary from state. Some prohibit the owner from doing it, some require the owner to do it.

For untitled original cars there are also, again varying from state to state, provision for issuing "state" serial numbers, bonded titles (allowing a "true" owner to claim the vehicle with a certain number of years), salvage titles, sherrif's titles, landholders titles (a landowner makes an affidavit that the vehicle has been abandoned on their property for many (like 30 in Oregon). Again, research both the statue (law) and administrative rules (DMV handbook of how to implement the law).

[jackson32]

Was car registered in a state when you bought it if it was I would think you will have very little trouble You may have some Pa. is a real pain wazoo