early '28 clutch replacement

[DaveBPT]

Recently picked up a really nice '28 sport coupe that wants to grind the tranny with 1 -2 and 2- 3 shifts. I have the clutch adjusted out as far as it will go. I have watched the clutch and throwout bearing through the inspection window. Looks like it does disengage at least at idle when the pedal is depressed. I'm going to try a different shift tower to eliminate that as a problem. At any rate it looks like the clutch is almost gone. Is it possible to rebuild the clutch assembly using a press vs the KR Wilson tool?

[rotorwrench]

Worn out clutches generally have more of a problem with slippage than anything else. If you push the clutch and stab it into first with no feeling of movement of the car then it should be completely disengaging. If you feel it wants to move at all then it is a disengagement problem.

With non synchronized transmissions, a person has to get used to matching engine rpms up with gear ratios during shifting. Double clutching helps with this some but may not always be necessary after a person gets good at matching engine rpms with rotational speeds of the transmission. Double clutching helps slow the counter shaft cluster down a bit before a shift attempt is made.

Also, real early Model As had the multi-plate clutch set up. I certainly hope you don't have one of those. Most all would likely have been changed out by now.

[F.M.]

Yes, It can be done on the clutch pack used thru Nov/Dec 1928, But you MUST be "very careful" or have a good Dentist..Another problem is getting it lined up right going back together. Best to have the service manuals with you as it also has pictures of doing it.. I have two cars using that system and they are the best shifting of any A I have owned..The Flywheel can be another problem if it is worn so as to hang the clutch assy. and not release it. Its all called maintenance in the first place, but the clutches will wear out if some one rides the clutch pedal..

[Joe K]

Is it possible to rebuild the clutch assembly using a press vs the KR Wilson tool?

Yes, at least you can clean it out, renew the disks, friction material, and put it back together.

You can even do it using only a couple of 3/4" steel plates, 3/4 all-thread, and a fair amount of knowledge of the forces involved. And how to restrain them.

I have heard a 20T press is a useful tool for this process too - saves a lot of "wrench time" as you go in and out.

Your big challenge - and the one problem which might complicate things - is the teeth of the clutch-pack wearing "grooves" into the interior surface of the flywheel. Un-grooved flywheel internal splines are getting harder to find. Some of this can be got past if you're talented with a file, and understand the dynamics of the clutch and modify it slightly to make the disks align "differently." Sometimes just putting new friction disks in can bring it to a different operating point.

You're saying its "operable" and your visual confirms this? A good clean-out and renew will probably improve this.

In many ways, the multi-plate clutch was a superior product to the later single plate clutch.

Joe K

[F.M.]

Originally Posted by Joe K

Yes, at least you can clean it out, renew the disks, friction material, and put it back together.

You can even do it using only a couple of 3/4" steel plates, 3/4 all-thread, and a fair amount of knowledge of the forces involved. And how to restrain them.

I have heard a 20T press is a useful tool for this process too - saves a lot of "wrench time" as you go in and out.

Your big challenge - and the one problem which might complicate things - is the teeth of the clutch-pack wearing "grooves" into the interior surface of the flywheel. Un-grooved flywheel internal splines are getting harder to find. Some of this can be got past if you're talented with a file, and understand the dynamics of the clutch and modify it slightly to make the disks align "differently." Sometimes just putting new friction disks in can bring it to a different operating point.

You're saying its "operable" and your visual confirms this? A good clean-out and renew will probably improve this.

In many ways, the multi-plate clutch was a superior product to the later single plate clutch.

Joe K

One more thing is at times you will find the plates will have a lot of wear on the teeth edges (they get pointed) and this also can be a problem as they are junk..

[DaveBPT]

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Thanks for the replies. Spent some time driving it today and improved my shifting technique. With double clutching and waiting out the trans to slow it can be shifted without grinding. I have the adjuster all the way out so the clutch might be a winter project.

[Joe K]

You may get improvement in your clutching if you change transmission oil. For a while the "600W" oil sold by vendors was "thinner" somehow than the original 600W oil used.

I discovered this on a rebuilt transmission on which I had NO problem shifting before the oil change but afterwards became "double clutch city."

My solution was a further change to 100 percent STP oil additive (yes I know its not a lubricant) which is considerably stiffer than the modern 600w and perhaps more along the lines of the original "compounded" 600W.

I might recommend this also - but read carefully the EXTENDED discussion about use of STP here on this board before committing to a decision. You may decide a partial solution would be best, or discuss with your Model A parts supplier the concerns we all have had regarding modern 600W (I bet they're aware of it.)

Joe K

[DaveBPT]

Joe K,
I had already replaced the trans goo with STP. I have found it shifts somewhat better after it is warmed up and I am paying closer attention.

[Purdy Swoft]

I would replace the early clutch with the later single disc clutch like many have done over the years !!!!!!!