The Ford Barn

GRutter · 06-18-2022, 03:57 PM

I just blasted inside and out of an oil pan and both sides of the splash-shield for my Burtz build. Then got concerned about the paint holding up inside the engine.
Any recommendations on protecting the inside of the oil pan and splash shield?
Thank You
George

TMarsh · 06-18-2022, 04:03 PM

Inside of oil pan will be protected by engine oil. IMO I would leave it unfinished. As for the splash shield I am assuming you mean the shelf inside the pan that the rods pick up oil from, I would also leave that unfinished. If you are referring to the engine pans on the side of the engine I would powder coat them. IMHO

GRutter · 06-18-2022, 07:14 PM

Normally I would agree - but after freshly cleaning, was looking to coat to prevent surface rusting prior to assy. I could coat with Glyptal - was looking for other options.

rotorwrench · 06-18-2022, 07:33 PM

The Burtz engine likely won't need the dipper wells. A person could drill holes in them to let the oil drain out. Keeping it just as a baffle should be OK. I have not seen them corrode all that much. Never painted one yet.

Glyptal seems to be what most folks use for the cast iron internals. It holds up to motor oil OK.

JOHNCL · 06-19-2022, 05:00 AM

rotorwrench, the Burtz engine manual instructs that the dipper wells should be left as Henry made them.

Dave in MN · 06-19-2022, 05:28 AM

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The dipper tray is constructed with baffles spotwelded to the bottom. These baffles, where attached to the pan, have crevices that now likely have sand driven into them. The sand may be TEMPORARILY captured by residual oil. When the engine is warmed, and new oil makes its way into the crevices, the sand may release and make its way into your oil. Ouch---if you are not using an oil filter.

I don't let any blast media near the dipper trays in my shop.

Do as you wish though. Replacement dipper trays are plentiful. If you can't find one, PM me and I will send you a clean but unblasted one.
Good Day!

Synchro909 · 06-19-2022, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JOHNCL

rotorwrench, the Burtz engine manual instructs that the dipper wells should be left as Henry made them.

The dipper tray is to stay in there in the Burtz engine so that the rods throw up an oil mist to help lubricate every moving part in there, so I have been told.

Bob Bidonde · 06-19-2022, 08:38 AM

The baffles on the bottom of the tray are essential to prevent the crankcase oil from sloshing too much and uncovering the oil pump pickup.

In a modern engine, the connecting rods have holes that spray oil upward to lubricate the cylinder walls and piston pins. If the Burtz connecting rods are of the OEM Model "A" / "B" type, then the troughs in the tray are necessary for splash lubrication of the cylinders and pistons.

Big hammer · 06-19-2022, 08:52 AM

Coat the blasted bare metal with STP or steam clylinder oil

rotorwrench · 06-19-2022, 10:33 AM

Ford Motor Company made the flathead V8 for a long time. They didn't start putting a sump baffle in till the 8BA era although they did experiment with them for a few years. They also didn't drill the tiny oil squirt holes in the con rods till half way through the 8BA era. The pans were deep enough not to have to worry about crankshaft windage (cutting through an oil bath). The Burtz engine is a full pressure engine so it doesn't need to rely on windage or dippers at all. The windage is just more drag on the crankshaft and the oil splash is really not necessary to keep things well lubricated. Leave them alone if you don't mind a lot of oil turbulence in there but that engine would run fine without all that oil splashing around. Enough oil exits the bearings during engine operation to provide some splash inside there.

Too much oil on the cylinder walls has a tendency to overload the old style oil control rings on many different older design engines. They need some lubrication but too much can do more harm than good in the long run. I don't know if the Burtz engine uses modern style oil control rings or not but they tend to control oil consumption pretty well. Even if they are used in this application, there is still no point in flooding them with oil.

Jim Brierley · 06-19-2022, 10:59 AM

The dipper tray does not NEED to be in a Burtz engine, however it is a good idea to have it in there. With a totally stock-oiled B engine, and I'm sure with A's, oil will abandon the pump on sharp turns and hard acceleration. I use a gauge and am sure of this. I pop-rivet baffle extensions in front of and behind the pump to prevent this.
There is an amazing amount of oil splashing around inside the crankcase, you needn't worry about everything being lubricated.

Joe K · 06-19-2022, 01:44 PM

Glyptol is the "par-excellance" oil casing interior paint finish.

It seals the case. Captivates any embedded sand from blasting. Gyptol is totally impervious to oil.

Most high end "blueprinted" engines are coated on the interior with Glyptol.

And Coal Fired Power Plant coal pulverizers (EL25) each take 1 gallon to coat the interior.

Joe K

06-18-2022, 03:57 PM	#1
GRutter Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Mint Hill, North Carolina Posts: 386	Paint for inside Oil Pan and Splashshield I just blasted inside and out of an oil pan and both sides of the splash-shield for my Burtz build. Then got concerned about the paint holding up inside the engine. Any recommendations on protecting the inside of the oil pan and splash shield? Thank You George

06-18-2022, 04:03 PM	#2
TMarsh Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2019 Posts: 131	Re: Paint for inside Oil Pan and Splashshield Inside of oil pan will be protected by engine oil. IMO I would leave it unfinished. As for the splash shield I am assuming you mean the shelf inside the pan that the rods pick up oil from, I would also leave that unfinished. If you are referring to the engine pans on the side of the engine I would powder coat them. IMHO

06-18-2022, 07:14 PM	#3
GRutter Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Mint Hill, North Carolina Posts: 386	Re: Paint for inside Oil Pan and Splashshield Normally I would agree - but after freshly cleaning, was looking to coat to prevent surface rusting prior to assy. I could coat with Glyptal - was looking for other options.

06-18-2022, 07:33 PM	#4
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,440	Re: Paint for inside Oil Pan and Splashshield The Burtz engine likely won't need the dipper wells. A person could drill holes in them to let the oil drain out. Keeping it just as a baffle should be OK. I have not seen them corrode all that much. Never painted one yet. Glyptal seems to be what most folks use for the cast iron internals. It holds up to motor oil OK.

06-19-2022, 05:00 AM	#5
JOHNCL Member Join Date: Feb 2020 Location: northern Maryland Posts: 68	Re: Paint for inside Oil Pan and Splashshield rotorwrench, the Burtz engine manual instructs that the dipper wells should be left as Henry made them.

06-19-2022, 05:28 AM	#6
Dave in MN Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Jordan, MN Posts: 1,411	Re: Paint for inside Oil Pan and Splashshield Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) The dipper tray is constructed with baffles spotwelded to the bottom. These baffles, where attached to the pan, have crevices that now likely have sand driven into them. The sand may be TEMPORARILY captured by residual oil. When the engine is warmed, and new oil makes its way into the crevices, the sand may release and make its way into your oil. Ouch---if you are not using an oil filter. I don't let any blast media near the dipper trays in my shop. Do as you wish though. Replacement dipper trays are plentiful. If you can't find one, PM me and I will send you a clean but unblasted one. Good Day! Last edited by Dave in MN; 06-19-2022 at 05:47 AM.

06-19-2022, 08:38 AM	#8
Bob Bidonde Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 3,472	Re: Paint for inside Oil Pan and Splashshield The baffles on the bottom of the tray are essential to prevent the crankcase oil from sloshing too much and uncovering the oil pump pickup. In a modern engine, the connecting rods have holes that spray oil upward to lubricate the cylinder walls and piston pins. If the Burtz connecting rods are of the OEM Model "A" / "B" type, then the troughs in the tray are necessary for splash lubrication of the cylinders and pistons. __________________ Bob Bidonde

06-19-2022, 08:52 AM	#9
Big hammer Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Land of Lincoln Posts: 3,131	Re: Paint for inside Oil Pan and Splashshield Coat the blasted bare metal with STP or steam clylinder oil __________________ Don't force it with a little hammer tap, tap, tap get a bigger hammer tap done

06-19-2022, 10:33 AM	#10
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,440	Re: Paint for inside Oil Pan and Splashshield Ford Motor Company made the flathead V8 for a long time. They didn't start putting a sump baffle in till the 8BA era although they did experiment with them for a few years. They also didn't drill the tiny oil squirt holes in the con rods till half way through the 8BA era. The pans were deep enough not to have to worry about crankshaft windage (cutting through an oil bath). The Burtz engine is a full pressure engine so it doesn't need to rely on windage or dippers at all. The windage is just more drag on the crankshaft and the oil splash is really not necessary to keep things well lubricated. Leave them alone if you don't mind a lot of oil turbulence in there but that engine would run fine without all that oil splashing around. Enough oil exits the bearings during engine operation to provide some splash inside there. Too much oil on the cylinder walls has a tendency to overload the old style oil control rings on many different older design engines. They need some lubrication but too much can do more harm than good in the long run. I don't know if the Burtz engine uses modern style oil control rings or not but they tend to control oil consumption pretty well. Even if they are used in this application, there is still no point in flooding them with oil.

06-19-2022, 10:59 AM	#11
Jim Brierley Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Temecula, CA Posts: 4,091	Re: Paint for inside Oil Pan and Splashshield The dipper tray does not NEED to be in a Burtz engine, however it is a good idea to have it in there. With a totally stock-oiled B engine, and I'm sure with A's, oil will abandon the pump on sharp turns and hard acceleration. I use a gauge and am sure of this. I pop-rivet baffle extensions in front of and behind the pump to prevent this. There is an amazing amount of oil splashing around inside the crankcase, you needn't worry about everything being lubricated.

06-19-2022, 01:44 PM	#12
Joe K Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Cow Hampshire Posts: 4,188	Re: Paint for inside Oil Pan and Splashshield Glyptol is the "par-excellance" oil casing interior paint finish. It seals the case. Captivates any embedded sand from blasting. Gyptol is totally impervious to oil. Most high end "blueprinted" engines are coated on the interior with Glyptol. And Coal Fired Power Plant coal pulverizers (EL25) each take 1 gallon to coat the interior. Joe K __________________ Shudda kept the horse.