The Ford Barn

old skool · 07-31-2015, 06:15 PM

Hello,

I am using Champion W16Y spark plugs on my model A. I want to use a hotter plug. Looking at a bunch of charts on line and not getting much help. What would be the next step up?

Thanks,
Marty

Mitch//pa · 07-31-2015, 07:22 PM

put in 3X plugs if it wont break the bank

MAG · 07-31-2015, 09:43 PM

X2 on W18

Benson · 07-31-2015, 09:57 PM

I used the C16C for 40,000 miles in the 60's ... 50 mile round trip every day to work/school. Forty five MPH speed limit. Hilly road 8000 feet to 5000 feet. And running dirt and jeep roads on weekends from 8000 feet to 11600 feet.

Plugs were fine under these conditions ...

In 1979 the C16C was replaced by the present W16Y.

Then moved to town so most trips are short 10 -15 miles round trip. Car has been driven 10,000 miles in last 10 years.

The W16Ys are too cold under these conditions.

As Vince said I use the W18's.

And like we used to joke when a customer asked if the work was guaranteed:

"It is guaranteed not to shrink or stink ...

not to green or gray...

not to fade away...

work fine...

and last a long time

SeaSlugs · 07-31-2015, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benson

And like we used to joke when a customer asked if the work was guaranteed:

"It is guaranteed not to shrink or stink ...

not to green or gray...

not to fade away...

work fine...

and last a long time

Hmm your motto is a bit better than ours at work: The yellow line guarantee: the machine will run until i cross the yellow line to the walk isle, if it breaks after that its someone elses problem.

Mike V. Florida · 07-31-2015, 10:44 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Model A spark plug heat ranges
Champion W18 = close to original 3X
Depending on your driving habits, etc., a cooler plug may be the one for you:
Champion W-14 (cooler than W-18)
Champion W-10 (cooler than W-14)
Motorcraft TT-10 (same as W-14)
Autolite 3076 (same as W-14 and TT-10)
Also Champion W16Y which some people will argue that it's cooler than Champion W-18 but hotter than W-14 as the numbers would suggest. On the other hand, for years and listed as such on their official heat range chart, the engineers at Champion proclaimed that the Y means projected nose (which it is, you can tell by looking at it) and for this reason it is supposed to run hotter at slower speeds.
Conduct a proper heat range test as follows to see what is needed for your car and how you drive:
Drive around for at least 30 minutes to allow engine heat to build and then drive out someplace where you can run the car at a sustained speed on a straight road for a few miles without having to slow down or stop, very important.
Run the car up to the maximum speed in high gear that you would typically drive if you decided to drive fast and I don't mean dangerously high speed.
Hold the car at that sustained speed and without letting off the throttle, reach over and turn off the ignition. Let off the throttle, push in the clutch quickly and coast over to the side of the road. Open the hood and allow the engine to cool off a bit (allow to cool off completely if running an aluminum head).
Remove the spark plugs and examine the color and condition of the electrodes and insulators. The color will be a true indication of how hot or cold the plugs are running. But remember ... during the test if you let the engine slow down or let it idle and then check the plugs you will have changed the effects and not get a true indication. I've seen many a person let an engine idle, check the plugs and then claim they were just right only to discover later that the plug heat range was too hot.
It they are white, the plug is too hot. Go to a colder plug.
If they are black, they are too cold. Go to a hotter plug.
If they are a shade of tan, they are just about right.
Also understand that all this is not set in stone. A person who putts around at say, 35 or 40 MPH and never faster may need a hotter plug. The lower the combustion chamber temperature the hotter the plug should be. On the other hand, as conditions cause the combustion chamber temperature to rise, a colder plug may be necessary. You just don't want the plugs to be sooty black and foul out which means they're too cold or chalky white which means they're too hot. You want the plugs to be somewhere in between like light brown to grayish tan. However, slightly white may not be too bad unless it is "chalky white."
Keep in mind that the plug descriptions are for engines in good condition, correct carb mixture, good hot ignition, etc., etc.. One with bad rings for example can cause oil to get on a correct heat range plug and foul it out (short to ground down the side of the center electrode) where it won't fire. It will be black and oily.
On the other hand, a plug that is running too hot will turn chalky white or bright white. This can reduce the life of the plug or even cause the electrode to burn up. A plug can also get hot enough to glow which can ignite the mixture before the spark occurs (pre-ignition). This can be bad news... During pre-ignition the temperature inside the combustion chambers can reach WELDING temperatures in just a few seconds. The result is a hole can melt right in the middle of an aluminum piston! ... and to make matters worse it can be completely silent .. you won't hear it until it's too late .. no detonation sounds, knocks or pings.
The condition just described is for a plug with the wrong heat range (too hot) run in an engine in good condition, correct carb etc.. the same as described above. If it is known that the correct heat range plug was used then other causes such as too lean a fuel mixture, timing advanced too far, etc., etc., are overheating the plug.
This is where "reading the plugs" can be used to determine all sorts of engine problems. But as mentioned it must be known that the correct plug was used to start with.
The heat range test is used to make this determination. At the outset always choose a colder plug first if you are not familiar with the nature of the plugs said to be hotter. That way the worst thing that can happen is the plug can foul out whereas too hot a plug can cause the problems above.
This information is from Larry Brumfield the creator of the Brumfield High compression head.

JD 1931 · 08-01-2015, 08:58 AM

I have use W-18 champions for years, lots of stop and go here, get them at NAPA....

mshmodela · 08-01-2015, 09:12 AM

W16Y vs W18

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJ3CI4QFKpI

Jim/GA · 08-01-2015, 11:43 AM

If your auto parts store people have difficulty finding a Champion W18 for you, ask them to look for a Champion 518. That's the number they are frequently listed as in computers. I don't know why. I pay about $7 each for them.

.

old skool · 08-01-2015, 03:45 PM

Good information. Thanks for the reply.

old skool · 08-05-2015, 08:14 PM

If anyone is interested, I found them on Amazon for $6.29 each with free shipping. As always, most of the local auto stores didn't have them.

07-31-2015, 06:15 PM	#1
old skool Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 65	hotter spark plug Hello, I am using Champion W16Y spark plugs on my model A. I want to use a hotter plug. Looking at a bunch of charts on line and not getting much help. What would be the next step up? Thanks, Marty

07-31-2015, 07:22 PM	#2
Mitch//pa BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks County, PA Posts: 11,454	Re: hotter spark plug put in 3X plugs if it wont break the bank

07-31-2015, 09:43 PM	#3
MAG Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 925	Re: hotter spark plug X2 on W18 __________________ I noticed the harder I work the luckier I get!

07-31-2015, 09:57 PM	#4
Benson Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,599	Re: hotter spark plug I used the C16C for 40,000 miles in the 60's ... 50 mile round trip every day to work/school. Forty five MPH speed limit. Hilly road 8000 feet to 5000 feet. And running dirt and jeep roads on weekends from 8000 feet to 11600 feet. Plugs were fine under these conditions ... In 1979 the C16C was replaced by the present W16Y. Then moved to town so most trips are short 10 -15 miles round trip. Car has been driven 10,000 miles in last 10 years. The W16Ys are too cold under these conditions. As Vince said I use the W18's. And like we used to joke when a customer asked if the work was guaranteed: "It is guaranteed not to shrink or stink ... not to green or gray... not to fade away... work fine... and last a long time Last edited by Benson; 07-31-2015 at 10:08 PM.

07-31-2015, 10:44 PM	#6
Mike V. Florida Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: South Florida Posts: 14,054	Re: hotter spark plug Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Model A spark plug heat ranges Champion W18 = close to original 3X Depending on your driving habits, etc., a cooler plug may be the one for you: Champion W-14 (cooler than W-18) Champion W-10 (cooler than W-14) Motorcraft TT-10 (same as W-14) Autolite 3076 (same as W-14 and TT-10) Also Champion W16Y which some people will argue that it's cooler than Champion W-18 but hotter than W-14 as the numbers would suggest. On the other hand, for years and listed as such on their official heat range chart, the engineers at Champion proclaimed that the Y means projected nose (which it is, you can tell by looking at it) and for this reason it is supposed to run hotter at slower speeds. Conduct a proper heat range test as follows to see what is needed for your car and how you drive: Drive around for at least 30 minutes to allow engine heat to build and then drive out someplace where you can run the car at a sustained speed on a straight road for a few miles without having to slow down or stop, very important. Run the car up to the maximum speed in high gear that you would typically drive if you decided to drive fast and I don't mean dangerously high speed. Hold the car at that sustained speed and without letting off the throttle, reach over and turn off the ignition. Let off the throttle, push in the clutch quickly and coast over to the side of the road. Open the hood and allow the engine to cool off a bit (allow to cool off completely if running an aluminum head). Remove the spark plugs and examine the color and condition of the electrodes and insulators. The color will be a true indication of how hot or cold the plugs are running. But remember ... during the test if you let the engine slow down or let it idle and then check the plugs you will have changed the effects and not get a true indication. I've seen many a person let an engine idle, check the plugs and then claim they were just right only to discover later that the plug heat range was too hot. It they are white, the plug is too hot. Go to a colder plug. If they are black, they are too cold. Go to a hotter plug. If they are a shade of tan, they are just about right. Also understand that all this is not set in stone. A person who putts around at say, 35 or 40 MPH and never faster may need a hotter plug. The lower the combustion chamber temperature the hotter the plug should be. On the other hand, as conditions cause the combustion chamber temperature to rise, a colder plug may be necessary. You just don't want the plugs to be sooty black and foul out which means they're too cold or chalky white which means they're too hot. You want the plugs to be somewhere in between like light brown to grayish tan. However, slightly white may not be too bad unless it is "chalky white." Keep in mind that the plug descriptions are for engines in good condition, correct carb mixture, good hot ignition, etc., etc.. One with bad rings for example can cause oil to get on a correct heat range plug and foul it out (short to ground down the side of the center electrode) where it won't fire. It will be black and oily. On the other hand, a plug that is running too hot will turn chalky white or bright white. This can reduce the life of the plug or even cause the electrode to burn up. A plug can also get hot enough to glow which can ignite the mixture before the spark occurs (pre-ignition). This can be bad news... During pre-ignition the temperature inside the combustion chambers can reach WELDING temperatures in just a few seconds. The result is a hole can melt right in the middle of an aluminum piston! ... and to make matters worse it can be completely silent .. you won't hear it until it's too late .. no detonation sounds, knocks or pings. The condition just described is for a plug with the wrong heat range (too hot) run in an engine in good condition, correct carb etc.. the same as described above. If it is known that the correct heat range plug was used then other causes such as too lean a fuel mixture, timing advanced too far, etc., etc., are overheating the plug. This is where "reading the plugs" can be used to determine all sorts of engine problems. But as mentioned it must be known that the correct plug was used to start with. The heat range test is used to make this determination. At the outset always choose a colder plug first if you are not familiar with the nature of the plugs said to be hotter. That way the worst thing that can happen is the plug can foul out whereas too hot a plug can cause the problems above. This information is from Larry Brumfield the creator of the Brumfield High compression head. __________________ What's right about America is that although we have a mess of problems, we have great capacity - intellect and resources - to do some thing about them. - Henry Ford II

08-01-2015, 08:58 AM	#7
JD 1931 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: west coast Fla.. Posts: 311	Re: hotter spark plug I have use W-18 champions for years, lots of stop and go here, get them at NAPA....

08-01-2015, 09:12 AM	#8
mshmodela Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 2,763	Re: hotter spark plug W16Y vs W18 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJ3CI4QFKpI __________________ -Mike Late 31' Ford Model A Tudor, Miss Daisy I don't work on cars --I'm learning about my Model A. Cleveland, Ohio

08-01-2015, 11:43 AM	#9
Jim/GA Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Young Harris, GA Posts: 1,821	Re: hotter spark plug If your auto parts store people have difficulty finding a Champion W18 for you, ask them to look for a Champion 518. That's the number they are frequently listed as in computers. I don't know why. I pay about $7 each for them. . __________________ Jim Cannon Former MAFCA Technical Director "Have a Model A day!"

08-01-2015, 03:45 PM	#10
old skool Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 65	Re: hotter spark plug Good information. Thanks for the reply.

08-05-2015, 08:14 PM	#11
old skool Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 65	Re: hotter spark plug If anyone is interested, I found them on Amazon for $6.29 each with free shipping. As always, most of the local auto stores didn't have them.