29 fuel gauge removal

[Deuce Man]

I have a very nice 28-29 fuel tank. I want to remove the gauge assembly. What size socket do I need, or is there another tool that works better? Any tips on this will be greatly appreciated. Thanks Rich

[Brentwood Bob]

Save your self some grief, and the gage intact and reusable. Order a removal tool set from Snyders first. I think les andrews red manual covers this. I would do my homework before you fiddle with this. It can be simple if you plan it and have the proper tools, or it can snowball.
You probably have a cork float(original) that doesn't like the alcohol in the new gasoline. So I suggest you order the replacement float along with the replacement kit. Get the kit with the replacement face plate. Bob

[ford1]

by all means buy the tool set for the gauge, its about $8, you will be sorry if you dont, and as was suggested buy all the repair parts at one time,

[Deuce Man]

Thanks guys. Rich

[Muttley]

I'm about to tackle the same job on my Dad's '31, if it was up to me I'd leave it alone and use a yardstick to measure fuel in the tank. I just hope that when it goes back together there arent any leaks. The guy I spoke to at Sacramento Vintage Ford this morning says that its an easy fix.............I've got my fingers crossed.

[Tom Endy]

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Instead of installing a cork or neoprene float, a brass float from a Tillotson carburetor works very well and I doubt the oil companies will come up with something that will destroy brass. It will fit through the tank boss on the dash. I soldered it onto the end of the wand.

I have picked up Tillotsons for as little as $5 at swap meets and salvaged the float and discarded the rest. Suppliers sell the Tillotson float for about $25.

There is a guy in San Diego who is making a brass float and marketing it. It has a tube throught the center to slip the wand through. I forget what the price is, but it is cheap enough and the one I saw looked pretty good.

Tom Endy

[al's28/33]

The one Tom just described is from Mikes-A-Fordable parts, sells for $10.00 and VERY WORTH IT!!...search old posts for gas gauge rebuilding, we have all detailed the entire process with great results.

[sethkestenbaum]

I purchased the steel fuel gauge tool (which is flat) and after days of wasted PB Blaster and elbow grease found my self in need of borrowing one of the more wrench like tools (which has some depth to it) so I could actually get the darn gauge loose.

So you know, The new floats seem to be a little longer than the old cork ones, so be prepared to carve into it a little.

[Father Mike]

I just installed a new gas gauge in my 29' Tudor on Thursday. You know you need to replace or repair one of those when you fill you tank at the station and on your way home while going uphill gasoline starts pouring through your instrument panel into the driver compartment and onto the transmission. For two long miles I had one hand on the steering wheel, one hand on the shifter and one hand on the fire extinguisher. Thank God I haven't installed my new upholstery yet. The process was quick and easy with the right tools! I read Les Andrew's section in the red book and watched this video on YouTube http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k-WDn8vmgic. Good luck and remember to always keep the fire extinguisher within arms reach.

[Mike V. Florida]

I also just did my guage it seem the "trick" is to use the steel tools not the cast aluminium ones and several brass washers so the ring slids better and allow you to get it tight.

Remember to dissconect the battery, have the tank less then 1/2 full,
A brass welding wire brush can be used to clean the surface of the gas tank receiver for the gasgage assembly.
Take a bent coat hanger and gently lift up your float wire till the float touches the top of the tank. Hold it there then look at your gauge to see if it is reading full (F). Bend your float wire as necessary to get the proper reading but it it best in my opinion to drain the tank add a gallon and check for the gauge to read zero.

[Richard Wilson]

I recently drove 120 miles to repair an old friends gas gauge. He and one of his buddies removed his Model A's gauge to replace a bad float. After they put everything back together and went to fill the gas tank at the station they had a minor gas "flood" inside his victoria which has carpet. When I got there I was amazed that they had not burned the car down! They had done everything WRONG. They did not have gas gauge tools and had used adjustable pliers to install the gauge. To make matters worse they reused the original round cork gasket (which was torn). Any way it took me about thirty minutes with the proper tools and new gaskets to fix the gauge problem. Then another forty minutes redoing the dash wiring and refitting the original pop out switch cable.

This can be the easiest most straight forward repair on your Model A or it can be the hardest most dangerous one. As Mike V. says get the steel gauge tools, a new cork gasket set, and a repair manual that shows the gauge installation diagram. A little gasket shellac on the gasket helps to.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

What would Chief say, "Buy you books, send you to school, and you still STUPID!"
Then the tirade would continue, "All the info you need is in the parts catalog, buy 2 complete gage repair kits, buy that trick tool set, take 'er apart, lay out the pieces in order removed, clean 'er up and stuff in the new pieces in REVERSE order. Don't use no goop, use the CORK gaskets, rubber is only for tires, tubes, hoses, & condoms! Oh! and don't tighten the big ring 'til it screams!----- Holler when you're finished!" Bill W. (He never said why 2 repair kits???)

[Muttley]

Originally Posted by Muttley

I'm about to tackle the same job on my Dad's '31......................

Well today was the day and it was an unmitigated disaster. The project started out fine, I had the gauge out, the new float installed and got it all back together fairly quickly. We put a spalsh of gas in the tank and headed down to the corner station to fill it up.

At the station Dad was filling the car while I sat inside keeping an eye on the gauge, it was reading half full and I was just about to declare victory when a waterfall of fuel started pouring out of the dash. I told him to stop, we wanted to get it away from the pumps but instead of pushing it (and before I could say anything about hoping out to push) Dad tried to start it. Some smoke came from behind the instrument panel and I jumped out ran around the car, ripped the floor out and yanked the battery cable off (it was only finger tight since this was a test run). We pushed the car to the other side of the lot and Dad went home to pick up his truck, a few tools and a chain to pull the car home.

Once we got it back to the house (at this point it was still dripping pretty bad) I pulled the gauge panel off and found some toasty wires and the insulators on the back of the amp gauge were melted. We drained the rest of the fuel and I cannibalized an old amp gauge to try and salvage the one in the 'A'. I put everything back together but when I tried to start it the fuse (it's got one of those on top of the starter) blew. We installed another fuse and it also popped. At this point I have no idea what to do next. I spoke with one of the local Model A Guru's on the phone and he's going to take a look at it early next week. I'm really starting to hate this car.

[Richard Wilson]

"I'm really starting to hate this car." Muttley

I would go the other direction and LOVE this car! At the very least it did not burn you, your dad, the car, and the station up from the leaking gas and the melted wires, both probably your fault. Leaking gas and melted wires is not usually a good combination from my experience.

"At this point I have no idea what to do next." Muttley

First fix the gas gauge leak properly, then replace the melted wires and amp meter, finally tighten the "finger tight" battery cable, replace the "safety fuse" and go from there.



If that battery cable is still only finger tight I would be sure it was tightened with a wrench before your next test run. As I said in my post #11 above gas gauge R&R can be very easy or very frustrating (as you found out) if you do not pay attention to the details.

Good luck!

[Brobrian]

Don't be discouraged.
By the time you get the new parts, sat, the wiring from the terminal box to the dash and the wiring from the cutout to the terminal box and a new ammeter, you'll have cooled down a bit. You could rewire the car, and properly install the gauge in a couple of hours.
I'm with Mr. Wilson here.
Love it. Hell, someday you'll be telling your kids about the time you almost burned down the gas station.

[1931 flamingo]

Take a look at ign sw terminals behind the dash, is that where they arced or shorted?? Cover with electrical tape.
Good luck
Paul in CT

[Tom Wesenberg]

I saw a repro gas guage nut that due to poor threads wouldn't tighten properly. I sent it back and used the customers old original gas guage nut.

A short at the ignition switch to tank should only stop the coil from working and possibly keep it turned on full time, which can overheat the coil and burn it out, but it shouldn't heat the wires to the switch, unless the coil internal wiring shorts out. Could the gas have melted the plastic nuts on the ammeter? A short in the ammeter can lead to burned wires. Is the ammeter a repro, or original?

[sethkestenbaum]

Muttley, Don't fret too much. I give you guys "props" for going and filling the tank to test it out. I replaced mine this past winter and haven't yet filled the tank more than 1/2 way.

When it all goes wrong (and after you figure it out and fix it), you get some great stories to tell your buddies/family/kids/co-workers.

[Muttley]

Originally Posted by Richard Wilson

I would go the other direction and LOVE this car! At the very least it did not burn you, your dad, the car, and the station up from the leaking gas and the melted wires, both probably your fault.

Well, sort of........................I really had no idea how the gaskets and brass ring were supposed to be installed, the kit had no directions. I installed the new parts in the same order as the old ones came out and it leaked. Now we know why the last owner never put more than a 1/4 of a tank of gas in it..........he would have had the same problem since the old gasket/ring was installed improperly. If a bunch of the wiring needs to be replaced Dad isnt going to be too pleased (and neither am I, I hate doing the same thing over and over), I just did a complete re-wire on the car two weeks ago.

[Muttley]

Originally Posted by Brobrian

Don't be discouraged.

It's already too late for that.

Originally Posted by Brobrian

By the time you get the new parts, sat, the wiring from the terminal box to the dash and the wiring from the cutout to the terminal box and a new ammeter, you'll have cooled down a bit.

Really hope that stuff is still ok, I just installed them two weeks ago.

Originally Posted by 1931 flamingo

Take a look at ign sw terminals behind the dash, is that where they arced or shorted?? Cover with electrical tape.

Yes, it's covered to prevent it from grounding.

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

A short at the ignition switch to tank should only stop the coil from working and possibly keep it turned on full time, which can overheat the coil and burn it out, but it shouldn't heat the wires to the switch, unless the coil internal wiring shorts out. Could the gas have melted the plastic nuts on the ammeter? A short in the ammeter can lead to burned wires. Is the ammeter a repro, or original?

The ammeter is a reproduction. Another problem is that the ignition switch isnt original and recieves it's power from one side of the ammeter. The local Model A Guru I spoke with on the phone says that he doesnt recommend doing it that way. When I installed the new wiring harness a couple of weeks ago I just put it back the way the old stuff was. At this point I think Dad is just going to tow it over to him and let him sort it out. I'm sick of messing with it and going one step forward and three steps back. Didnt Henry build one of these every eleven minutes? Why are they such a PITA?