The Ford Barn

Steve Plucker · 02-12-2013, 07:47 AM

How many of you have in the past or still do posess an original, assembled vehicle who may have, or not, have what you think, or may not think, is the original title to the car or truck (Model A/AA Ford)?

Even though you have an origianl title with a number on it, how may of you have accepted the fact that the number on the title is the actual number on the chassis? Or not?

How many of you have had curiosity get the best of you and you just had to pull the body off just to see what that number is on the frame?

I am at that delima with my early February 1929 Tudor Sedan.

I have what I am perty sure is the original Bill of Sale showing the February 13, 1929 engine number, but darn... is that the actual number on the frame?

Yep, curiosity is getting the best of me...some day!

Pluck

Roadster62 · 02-12-2013, 08:06 AM

I'm SO glad I live in a state were there are no titles on vehicles 25 year old or older. Bob

plind · 02-12-2013, 08:07 AM

Hi Steve,

I understand your curiosity, but i will try to ignorer my curiosity about my Town Sedan, it is a 1. owner and the title is orig. so i am pretty sure that i have a matching number car..I got the car from the son on the Farm, where it was from new... And on my Tudor ( * A 2820 * ) there do i have all title paper and name on all owners from new.. But it is in a bad condition, so here i will seperate the frame from the rest of the car...And get it repaintet...
So if it is a very nice orig unrestored 29 you have, i will not seperatet it..

Per,
Per,

2manycars · 02-12-2013, 08:13 AM

The disappointment would be if you went to all that work and then found that the number was illegible due to rust on the frame.

John LaVoy · 02-12-2013, 09:37 AM

I have done three Model As and none of them have had the number on the frame. Either not there or rusted off. But could not even fine the hint of a number.

lance leblanc · 02-12-2013, 10:17 AM

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I had a simular conversation with a club member last night. After which I felt fortunate that I know as much as I now do. I'm the forth owner of my 29 Tudor and while my Title and Bill of sale are not original (mine are from the last owners purchase in '63) they do match my frame. The orginal engine was cored in the 80's. Im glad I pulled the body off, I think had I not done so I would always be wondering.

Willie Krash · 02-12-2013, 10:30 AM

I live in an easy going state that just looked at the engine number and that was that. I'm thinking about stamping the frame myself with that number, just in case.
I'm sure those DMV folks don't know or really care all that much as long as they see a number. To the question I'm too lazy to be that curious.

swo4rd · 02-12-2013, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roadster62

I'm SO glad I live in a state were there are no titles on vehicles 25 year old or older. Bob

I'm going to move my summer residence to CT...

Tom Wesenberg · 02-12-2013, 11:40 AM

I lifted the left side on my 2-23-29 Tudor about 4" and couldn't find the number.

I'd let sleeping dogs lie.

Brentwood Bob · 02-12-2013, 12:04 PM

Used a Number 2 lead pencil and a used sheet of notepaper and the illegible frame number appeared out of the wire brushed rusty pitted frame. Some call that a rubbing. Voila.
Alot of work removing the body bolts to get to the site of the number. Sheep urine is not compatible with steel.
Bob

junk yard kid · 02-12-2013, 02:03 PM

I had to show the vin to the dmv, as i had to lien sale it. Do i pull the body off there? or do i just bring it all in a pile or two trailers? But i deal with the DMV task force with work and i got an agent to come to my house. I raised the body four inches and no dice, tried a rubbing, no dice. Then i got the idea to use a little spot sand blaster from harbor frieght. That made it visible, then i loaded it up with paint.

Rowdy · 02-12-2013, 02:06 PM

All matching number on my Delivery, so no worries further down the road. 3 more months until I can get the bond released from my title and it will read "Original" instead of "Bonded". Rod

JoeWay · 02-12-2013, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Plucker

...I have what I am perty sure is the original Bill of Sale showing the February 13, 1929 engine number, but darn... is that the actual number on the frame?

Yep, curiosity is getting the best of me...some day!

Pluck

Steve,

Sounds to me that you're saying you have an original, appropriately dated Bill of Sale from Ford or from the Ford dealer that matches your engine number.

If so, I'd say the odds are very high that the frame number matches the Bill of Sale. Or to put it another way, I'd say the odds are very low that the OE Bill of Sale was kept with the incorrect engine all these years rather than with the correct frame/body, i. e., the complete car. The odds would seem to me to be even lower that the OE BoS was re-united with the incorrect engine--either way, your BoS is almost certainly for your car, and by extension also for your CORRECT engine.

As Tom W. says, let the dogs lie--until you have another and much better reason to take the body off.

Joe

Hitchhiker · 02-12-2013, 04:04 PM

One of the great things with my new truck is that the frame engine and title all match.

RichPA · 02-12-2013, 05:34 PM

I purchased my car from a co-workers father. He had the car for 2 years and lost interest. He stated to me that he bought the car from the family that bought it new but had no documentation. While the engine number does not match the title, I am confident the frame number if it is there does. It appears the body has never been off, and I can say with confidence the truth will not be found while I am alive, maybe my son will find out someday.

Bill in SoCal · 02-13-2013, 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Plucker

How many of you have in the past or still do posess an original, assembled vehicle who may have, or not, have what you think, or may not think, is the original title to the car or truck (Model A/AA Ford)?

Even though you have an origianl title with a number on it, how may of you have accepted the fact that the number on the title is the actual number on the chassis? Or not? Pluck

I bought my car with clear title, but the engine in the car had a different number than the title. However, the former owner had the engine block with the correct number. You all know how common it is to have the engines switched over the years. I bought the car and the new title cleared, but that does not mean that the former engine match the frame number either. Years later, I removed the body for repairs. Frame number matched the title, and the second engine number. Lucky me.

I guess the question would be what if they did not match? Could it be stolen? How far back do most states DVM records go? Of course it is illegal to grind off the frame number or re-strike it with the current engine number or vice versa. What to do?

1st_model_a · 02-13-2013, 02:38 AM

Bought a 28 with clear title and registration. The owner did not know the history of the car - it had belonged to his father. I had to lift the frame to show frame number to DMV when I tried to get the title transferred. The frame was rusted/corroded/pitted and with sanding was still only able to resolve a couple of partial digits.

supergnat · 02-13-2013, 07:01 AM

I have the original title for my 28 leatherback. The title I got from the previous owner matched the engine and bill of sale. I am the fourth owner of the car which has always been registered in NJ. There is no evidence that the body has ever been off and I do not intend to remove it. I may have my original engine rebuilt when I save enough money. Fow now I just enjoy my original car with original interior, non original body paint and (what I believe to be) the original hand painted top. Don't mess with it.
Supergnat

walt jones · 02-13-2013, 06:11 PM

Steve, This is not to your point concerning original titles and bills of sale. I to have an engine built on 2-13-29. I do not have the original title, My title is now from Missouri, it shows 1929 tudor, engine number 1040640. I was told that the frame number matched the motor number. You can tell that the body has been off of the frame. There are several odd things about this car,it has a forged tail light bracket,the front crossmember has holes for the front of the early style engine pans,the timming cover has wide bosses like those used with the solid front engine mount. the body number shows it to have been built at Twin Cities. Since our cars are both 29 tudors I thought that this info might be of interest. By the way, Happy Birthday.

sturgis39 · 02-13-2013, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

I lifted the left side on my 2-23-29 Tudor about 4" and couldn't find the number.

I'd let sleeping dogs lie.

I agree with you Tom. I do not want to know. Most highway Patrol officers will probably look through the front window around the dash.

I usally only get stopped during the Sturgis Motor Cycle Rally. They usually just want to look at the car and then they speed off to another wreck.

02-12-2013, 07:47 AM	#1
Steve Plucker BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Walla Walla, Washington USA Posts: 6,066	Removing body vs. not removing the body... How many of you have in the past or still do posess an original, assembled vehicle who may have, or not, have what you think, or may not think, is the original title to the car or truck (Model A/AA Ford)? Even though you have an origianl title with a number on it, how may of you have accepted the fact that the number on the title is the actual number on the chassis? Or not? How many of you have had curiosity get the best of you and you just had to pull the body off just to see what that number is on the frame? I am at that delima with my early February 1929 Tudor Sedan. I have what I am perty sure is the original Bill of Sale showing the February 13, 1929 engine number, but darn... is that the actual number on the frame? Yep, curiosity is getting the best of me...some day! Pluck Last edited by Steve Plucker; 02-12-2013 at 08:48 AM.

02-12-2013, 08:06 AM	#2
Roadster62 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ridgefield, Ct Posts: 3,441	Re: Removing body vs. not removing the body... I'm SO glad I live in a state were there are no titles on vehicles 25 year old or older. Bob __________________ They don't have to run to be enjoyed. I'm here to enjoy the hobby, and enjoy the cars no matter what they look like. Most of the worlds problems are electrical.

02-12-2013, 08:07 AM	#3
plind Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Denmark Posts: 330	Re: Removing body vs. not removing the body... Hi Steve, I understand your curiosity, but i will try to ignorer my curiosity about my Town Sedan, it is a 1. owner and the title is orig. so i am pretty sure that i have a matching number car..I got the car from the son on the Farm, where it was from new... And on my Tudor ( * A 2820 * ) there do i have all title paper and name on all owners from new.. But it is in a bad condition, so here i will seperate the frame from the rest of the car...And get it repaintet... So if it is a very nice orig unrestored 29 you have, i will not seperatet it.. Per, Per,

02-12-2013, 08:13 AM	#4
2manycars Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Eastern CT Posts: 2,732	Re: Removing body vs. not removing the body... The disappointment would be if you went to all that work and then found that the number was illegible due to rust on the frame.

02-12-2013, 09:37 AM	#5
John LaVoy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Rocklin, CA Posts: 1,219	Re: Removing body vs. not removing the body... I have done three Model As and none of them have had the number on the frame. Either not there or rusted off. But could not even fine the hint of a number.

02-12-2013, 10:17 AM	#6
lance leblanc Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Baton Rouge LA Posts: 238	Re: Removing body vs. not removing the body... Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) I had a simular conversation with a club member last night. After which I felt fortunate that I know as much as I now do. I'm the forth owner of my 29 Tudor and while my Title and Bill of sale are not original (mine are from the last owners purchase in '63) they do match my frame. The orginal engine was cored in the 80's. Im glad I pulled the body off, I think had I not done so I would always be wondering. __________________ Lance "When Solomon said there was a time and place for everything he had not encountered the problem of parking his automobile." Bob Edwards

02-12-2013, 10:30 AM	#7
Willie Krash Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Phoenix, Oregon Posts: 661	Re: Removing body vs. not removing the body... I live in an easy going state that just looked at the engine number and that was that. I'm thinking about stamping the frame myself with that number, just in case. I'm sure those DMV folks don't know or really care all that much as long as they see a number. To the question I'm too lazy to be that curious.

02-12-2013, 11:40 AM	#9
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Removing body vs. not removing the body... I lifted the left side on my 2-23-29 Tudor about 4" and couldn't find the number. I'd let sleeping dogs lie.

02-12-2013, 12:04 PM	#10
Brentwood Bob Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: brentwood, ca Posts: 4,245	Re: Removing body vs. not removing the body... Used a Number 2 lead pencil and a used sheet of notepaper and the illegible frame number appeared out of the wire brushed rusty pitted frame. Some call that a rubbing. Voila. Alot of work removing the body bolts to get to the site of the number. Sheep urine is not compatible with steel. Bob

02-12-2013, 02:03 PM	#11
junk yard kid Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: san diego Posts: 114	Re: Removing body vs. not removing the body... I had to show the vin to the dmv, as i had to lien sale it. Do i pull the body off there? or do i just bring it all in a pile or two trailers? But i deal with the DMV task force with work and i got an agent to come to my house. I raised the body four inches and no dice, tried a rubbing, no dice. Then i got the idea to use a little spot sand blaster from harbor frieght. That made it visible, then i loaded it up with paint.

02-12-2013, 02:06 PM	#12
Rowdy BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Gothenburg Nebraska Just off I-80 Posts: 4,893	Re: Removing body vs. not removing the body... All matching number on my Delivery, so no worries further down the road. 3 more months until I can get the bond released from my title and it will read "Original" instead of "Bonded". Rod __________________ Do the RIGHT thing - Support the H.A.M.B. Alliance!!!!

02-12-2013, 04:04 PM	#14
Hitchhiker Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Seattle Posts: 389	Re: Removing body vs. not removing the body... One of the great things with my new truck is that the frame engine and title all match. __________________ Matt in Seattle

02-12-2013, 05:34 PM	#15
RichPA Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: rowland PA Posts: 186	Re: Removing body vs. not removing the body... I purchased my car from a co-workers father. He had the car for 2 years and lost interest. He stated to me that he bought the car from the family that bought it new but had no documentation. While the engine number does not match the title, I am confident the frame number if it is there does. It appears the body has never been off, and I can say with confidence the truth will not be found while I am alive, maybe my son will find out someday.

02-13-2013, 02:38 AM	#17
1st_model_a Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 29	Re: Removing body vs. not removing the body... Bought a 28 with clear title and registration. The owner did not know the history of the car - it had belonged to his father. I had to lift the frame to show frame number to DMV when I tried to get the title transferred. The frame was rusted/corroded/pitted and with sanding was still only able to resolve a couple of partial digits.

02-13-2013, 07:01 AM	#18
supergnat Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Palmyra, NJ Posts: 475	Re: Removing body vs. not removing the body... I have the original title for my 28 leatherback. The title I got from the previous owner matched the engine and bill of sale. I am the fourth owner of the car which has always been registered in NJ. There is no evidence that the body has ever been off and I do not intend to remove it. I may have my original engine rebuilt when I save enough money. Fow now I just enjoy my original car with original interior, non original body paint and (what I believe to be) the original hand painted top. Don't mess with it. Supergnat

02-13-2013, 06:11 PM	#19
walt jones Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Kansas City, Mo. Posts: 101	Re: Removing body vs. not removing the body... Steve, This is not to your point concerning original titles and bills of sale. I to have an engine built on 2-13-29. I do not have the original title, My title is now from Missouri, it shows 1929 tudor, engine number 1040640. I was told that the frame number matched the motor number. You can tell that the body has been off of the frame. There are several odd things about this car,it has a forged tail light bracket,the front crossmember has holes for the front of the early style engine pans,the timming cover has wide bosses like those used with the solid front engine mount. the body number shows it to have been built at Twin Cities. Since our cars are both 29 tudors I thought that this info might be of interest. By the way, Happy Birthday. __________________ Walt Last edited by walt jones; 02-13-2013 at 10:30 PM.