Motor UPDATE!!! It aint pretty

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by Jordan

The car is at Logan's house so I can't validate with the book we keep all the mileage in, but I would guess it had 1,500-2000 miles on it. I would assume it's well broken in by then. We had gone on several trips in it.

I wouldn't think that it would matter if it had inserts or babbit bearings. In this case, the bearings weren't the problem. It was the piston.

Well broken in by 1500 miles!!!

[dumb person]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

How are you guys determining this?

.

Lawn mowers with similar problems & the part where to rod does not move very far under its own weight, i am not an expert on those though, this is the internet afterall so it would be hard to give an accurate diagnosis but yeah.... & all the sloppy pins in worn out engines i had over the years might make me bias.

[Steve Wastler]

Originally Posted by jcheshire31

Maybe I should just chop mine up and make a hot rod so I don't have to deal with these arrogant people anymore.

Hey, chop away, I'll take the undercarriage!!

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Steve Wastler

Hey, chop away, I'll take the undercarriage!!

Wow, this just keeps getting uglier!!


.

[Steve Wastler]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Wow, this just keeps getting uglier!!


.

Yes, quite, I was not going to post about all this drama. I do get tired of 'the age thing' thrown around here by misdirected kids. Less originals will undoubtedly make the rest worth more! I will always take the cast off original parts.

[jkelsh]

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No need to cut up any good cars! It sounds like like multiple problems occurred and it would be impossible to blame any single person. As Henry Ford said "don't find fault, find a remedy" If the engine has to be rebuilt again isn't it worth the money to get the car back on the road? It's not worth fighting over.

[Kurt in NJ]

To me it looks like that cylinder has a sleeve ---not that it is the cause of the problem ,but that it has to be considered in working on a solution --it may not be good to bore it larger because the sleeve can get too thin although most likely removing the deposited piston and honing (with rigid hone not glaze breaker or dingle berry hone)can fix that bore.

There doesn't look to be signs of heating at the wristpin, I doubt that is the root cause, that piston got distorted by the heating of the skirt, the wristpin will not fit as it was assembled ---it will be hard to know what clearances it was assembled with, although comparing the bore size with the other bores can give clues

Measure the bores, top middle and bottom, if you don't have proper measuring tools you can get an idea with a piston ring by measuring the end gap, the changes in bore size are about 1/3 the change in ring end gap.

Did you have an oil filter? --I remember it being mentioned in one of the posts, but I don't remember if it was installed

[Growley bear]

And the good news is that the con rod dipper tray has not been drilled.

Henry J. Kaiser said that problems are opportunities in work clothes.

Judge Joe or Judge Judy ??

I have been in the business for more years than I care to reveal. I once installed a factory long block into a car, took it for a road test and had a con rod force its way through the side of the block. These things happen and have happened since machinery has been around.
The way I handle it is to leave it alone for an undetermined amount of time and when I get back to it my thought processes are less clouded and then I can figure out the best way to handle it.
Chet

[d.j. moordigian]

Originally Posted by d.j. moordigian

I'm with James and Brent on the the rods and pins. Also, you need to find a
qualified engine builder...some of this mess could be your fault.

From the quick look that I did, the engine was assembled dirty....trash in the
bearings. Also, whats with the Helicols in the main bearing bulk heads??
No through bolts?

Gezzz......this is the first time I had too reply to one of my own quotes.

Kahuna & Phil, Morning..
The engine builder, builds the engine...and in this case installs it in the
car. After that, the owner has control of the car.
Hopefully the builder is sharp enough to check the radiator, water pump
and the distributor.
How was the car driven??


To do that much damage to the piston, it didn't happen instantly.
It took time...the engine was "sagging"...working hard to compensate
for a "hole" that was tightening up. The water temp is going to go up.
The engine is going to "shake". It's a 4 cylinder engine....how much
harder does 3 holes have to compensate(work) for a stuck hole!

This all shows up in the main bearings in the photos. To bad no photos
of the rod bearings....odd?

Hope this helps you juveniles....

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Dudley, also take into consideration this engine is reported to have 1,500 miles on it. Think about how long that is in terms of driving time. I would also assume this does not account for idling time or waiting at traffic lights or stop signs. If I recall correctly, the OP mentioned something about this engine being driven at 75mph. Driving this engine 1,500 miles at a "killer" speed of 75mph still would take 20 hours of operation to do. Process all of that for a moment or two!!!

.

[Jordan]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Dudley, also take into consideration this engine is reported to have 1,500 miles on it. Think about how long that is in terms of driving time. I would also assume this does not account for idling time or waiting at traffic lights or stop signs. If I recall correctly, the OP mentioned something about this engine being driven at 75mph. Driving this engine 1,500 miles at a "killer" speed of 75mph still would take 20 hours of operation to do. Process all of that for a moment or two!!!

.

yes the engine builder drove it 75 mph on day one of a fresh rebuild. That's what he told us when we picked it up. We don't drive 75 mph.

[Purdy Swoft]

The way that I read it was that the engine builder bragged about running the car at 75 mph while testing. The owner actually thought that running the engine at 75 MPH before break in was not a good thing.

[Bob C]

[QUOTE=BRENT in 10-uh-C;676735]Wow, this just keeps getting uglier!!

If you look at your calendar you will see we had a FULL MOON recently, makes
people crazy.

Bob
.

[Jordan]

Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft

The way that I read it was that the engine builder bragged about running the car at 75 mph while testing. The owner actually thought that running the engine at 75 MPH before break in was not a good thing.

you read it correctly.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft

The way that I read it was that the engine builder bragged about running the car at 75 mph while testing. The owner actually thought that running the engine at 75 MPH before break in was not a good thing.

I agree and that's the way I read it also. I'd be plenty upset with any builder that would do that to the car and to the engine.
I wouldn't even think of doing that to a well broke in engine.

I'm still wanting to see a picture of the odd shaped counterweights.

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

Originally Posted by d.j. moordigian

Gezzz......this is the first time I had too reply to one of my own quotes.

Kahuna & Phil, Morning..
The engine builder, builds the engine...and in this case installs it in the
car. After that, the owner has control of the car.
Hopefully the builder is sharp enough to check the radiator, water pump
and the distributor.
How was the car driven??


To do that much damage to the piston, it didn't happen instantly.
It took time...the engine was "sagging"...working hard to compensate
for a "hole" that was tightening up. The water temp is going to go up.
The engine is going to "shake". It's a 4 cylinder engine....how much
harder does 3 holes have to compensate(work) for a stuck hole!

This all shows up in the main bearings in the photos. To bad no photos
of the rod bearings....odd?

Hope this helps you juveniles....

D.J.

When you have a melted pistion like that, it can go from good to bad in 30 seconds with out warning.

From no noise, to what you see.

We have had several engines come in like that from other builders, and the owners, all have there stories of how the engine acted, and stoped, and they are all about the same.

It just doesn't happen, you can always find the cause.

I have never used those kind of pistons, and don't intend to. But George gave a good clue to look for with the way you install them, and the wrist pin bosses.

[Purdy Swoft]

[QUOTE=Bob C;676906]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Wow, this just keeps getting uglier!!

If you look at your calendar you will see we had a FULL MOON recently, makes
people crazy.

Bob
.

I've got to agree!!! We saw the same sort of thing on the New project in my shop, thread . Same bullies involved.

[Jeff/Illinois]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

I agree and that's the way I read it also. I'd be plenty upset with any builder that would do that to the car and to the engine.
I wouldn't even think of doing that to a well broke in engine.

I'm still wanting to see a picture of the odd shaped counterweights.

I keep thinking of the original break-in instructions from Ford, in the Model A era. 'The operator should not exceed 35 MPH for the first 500 miles' and that was even after they ran in the motors at the Rouge.

Some things should not be changed! 75MPH is plain nuts on a new Model A engine. That's just common sense.

[Fred]

If you want a Chevy engine & want to do 70-75 MPH in a model "A" with air condition, four speed trans, & high speed rear end , Call Rick Hendricks !!!..

[jcheshire31]

Originally Posted by Steve Wastler

Hey, chop away, I'll take the undercarriage!!

Sarcasm doesnt transfer well over the Internet. I couldn't ever bring myself to do that.