Critique this '34

[petehoovie]

Many pictures here > https://www.hemmings.com/auction/193...er-475545/sold

[38 coupe]

That doesn't look like near 100k to me, but then again I don't have near 100k to spend on anything so it doesn't really matter.
First quick note is the wrong fuel pump. Others who are more knowledgeable on 34 Fords will likely notice other things.

[DavidG]

Based on the Early Ford V8 Club judging standards, if the new owner of this coupe were to enter it for judging at a national meet and it was judged accurately and fairly, it would fall below the 950 minimum point threshold for a Dearborn award scoring about 940 points. The big deductions would be for the upholstery in the front (wrong material, wrong color) and in the rumble compartment (wrong color), followed by the wood graining (right color, wrong pattern), spark plugs, front spring clamp, muffler, finish on grille bars, heavy pitting on the underside of all four fenders, wrong fuel/air lines (not siamesed), fuel pump, and wrong finish on the underside of the running boards.


Still, it is a nice car and it would be welcome in my garage. Worth $94K? I don't think so.

[Lawrie]

Also , its got the steering on the wrong side,
LOL
Lawrie

[rockfla]

Thank you for the lesson in "detail" David. Always teaches me to slow down and look harder!!!! The fuel pump was a glaring one, the spark plugs, for me, not as much!!!!

[Oldbluoval]

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I must defer to David G…but…
Always a “but”…thats just what they go for! Granted the market is a bit soft right now.
Willing buyer/willing seller met!

[Tim Ayers]

I am not anywhere near being in the world of Dearborn judging, but I do find it interesting that David G mentioned how points are deducted for pitting on the underside of the fenders.

Eventually, the supply of perfect or very good OEM fenders is going to dry up.

Would it be better, for judging purposes, to use aftermarket sheet metal and do the work to make them look/fit like OEM or do your best to fix an OEM fender with pitting?

[rockfla]

Originally Posted by Tim Ayers

I am not anywhere near being in the world of Dearborn judging, but I do find it interesting that David G mentioned how points are deducted for pitting on the underside of the fenders.

Eventually, the supply of perfect or very good OEM fenders is going to dry up.

Would it be better, for judging purposes, to use aftermarket sheet metal and do the work to make them look/fit like OEM or do your best to fix an OEM fender with pitting?

OR how about doing a little filler work and smoothing them out before painting and priming......It looks like a lot of effort was made to do a good job on the car.....IT wouldn't take much to "FINISH" the job!!!!

[Seth Swoboda]

Want to have more fun? Critique this car.
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...-window-coupe/

[mhsprecher]

It sold yesterday for $94K! Holy moly! After 32's the 34's are the holy grail of early Fords, in my opinion.

It's good they provided a lot of pics. It helps make an informed decision. Pet peeve: I hate it when they take pics with the reflection of the photographer in the shot. Can't be avoided sometimes, but in many cases it can be.

[rockfla]

Originally Posted by Seth Swoboda

Want to have more fun? Critique this car.
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...-window-coupe/

I'll start
Wrong, Intake manifold, fuel pump, carburetor, air breather, NO engine tins, crank hole cover on the grill, fuel "lines" ALL..THUS I would imagine you have NO fuel gauge, cutout "finish", appears to have bolts on the dog bones, cannot tell for sure BUT the front springs appears from what I can see is a 34?? Radiator hose clamps, oil pan should be black, "V8" emblem is too low, rumble seat interior is wrong color, rumble seat floor mat. Wind wings, spark plugs, front bumper looks to be 34, valve stems and appears to have NO valve stem on the spare tire to tell IF its mounted correctly. Painted dash and trim, gas tank should be black, all kinds of modern plated bolts, nuts & washers on front fender mounting, wrong spare tire hub cap, no paint on the V8's on the car.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by rockfla

OR how about doing a little filler work and smoothing them out before painting and priming......It looks like a lot of effort was made to do a good job on the car.....IT wouldn't take much to "FINISH" the job!!!!

For a $94K car, I agree 100%. I have a pet peeve for things such hose clamps and other fasteners.

Not sure why, but my I gets drawn to them immediately.

For the underside of fenders, I guess the previous owner had to make a decision as to how far he wanted to go.

I can only assume when faced with the estimate of how much extra it was going to cost of finishing the underside of the fenders, he decided not to.

[Seth Swoboda]

We're being more particular than the average person, however for the money these guys are asking for these two cars, they better be concourse correct for me.

[rockfla]

Originally Posted by Seth Swoboda

We're being more particular than the average person, however for the money these guys are asking for these two cars, they better be concourse correct for me.

X2 for me too Seth, especially since on the 34 they are tripping all over themselves with the promotion of the awards it garnered, sadly an EFV8 Club "Dearborn" among them!!

[DavidG]

I'm not sure that the former or new owner would ever enter that '33 coupe to be judged, except perhaps to help develop a to-do list for its proper restoration. If it were mine, I would remove the body from the frame and first establish the condition of the frame in the sides where the rear X member arms join the side rails. It would be unusual for a frame with that degree of pitting not to have serious rust issues in those two areas. The pitting on the under body and on the frame would have to be removed. The heavy pitting on the axles would be a challenge as to rid the pitting there would end up with them being over-restored.

As Robert notes, the engine compartment is a mess, from the spark plugs, their wires, the heads, the engine pans, the oil pan, the fuel and gauge air lines, the intake manifold and just about everything attached to it.

The upholstery in the front compartment is okay assuming it is a true Bedford cord (can't tell for sure from the photos), but that in the rumble compartment is way off color wise. There's no wood graining and the finish on the instrument panel is terrible. It has a '34 ammeter, not a '33. The plating on the shift lever and hand brake is incorrect. There should be no boot on top of the shift lever housing and spring clips to retain the floor mat around the opening in the center of the floor are missing. The molding around the top insert appears to be something other than the original.

The rumble lid set up is that of a roadster with the latch handle on the lid, not remotely controlled from inside as it should be in a '33-'34 coupe. The hood tops seems to want to wave at you when you walk by.

The battery carrier is a mess. The bars on the grille are both pitted and the wrong finish (and the V8 emblem is misplaced). The ring on the spare tire cover is that of a '34, not that of a '33. No double WSW tires and no front axle bumper. Dozens and dozens of incorrect fasteners, at least as to their finish.

Those are just the obvious high (low) lights. No doubt there are more.

[rockfla]

David
Is the front bumper NOT 34??? Bolt spacing?? Shouldn't the 33 bolts fall somewhere in a relative line between the grill sides and the horn??? 34's outboard of the outside edges of the horns??

[DavidG]

Robert,


That was my initial reaction as well, but I think that the camera is misleading here. If you look closely and image '34 bumper guards on the bumper, they would be tilted to the center because of the beginning of the dip in the bumper. Also, the overhead view suggests that the inner front bumper brackets are '33s and not '34s.

[T Scott]

The visors with the single swivel hinge on one side, is that correct or was that unique to the 3 window as opposed to the 5 window?

[the.secret.victoria]

Aren't the rumble seat cars supposed to have a cloth circular cover over the rear axle rather than a steel cover? It appears both these cars have steel covers.

[deuce lover]

Originally Posted by T Scott

The visors with the single swivel hinge on one side, is that correct or was that unique to the 3 window as opposed to the 5 window?

TMK all 34 deluxe's had the single swivel hinge sunvisors.A '34 Vic I restored in 1969 had them.

[KJ714]

Frame number doesn't look original to me.

If you look closely at the "I8 - " you'll see it looks remarkably different in quality from the remaining numbers, I think it is original. It's originality is evidenced by the witness marks of the frame stamping process, the straight lines marked across the frame by the press pushing the metal blank around the original mold shape. If you look for them you'll see them across the "18 -", I count about 10 of them, the last one intersecting across the "-". In the remaining frame number, the witness marks from the stamping process disappear, indicating that area was smoothed by the process of erasing the original number, and a new number stamped in, which is markedly dissimilar in quality from the original "I8-". Just my 2 cents

[KJ714]

As an example, here is a frame number where the last 4 digits have been changed. The absence of witness marks in the altered area is pronounced & the witness marks begin again a few inches further up the frame.

[rockfla]

Originally Posted by KJ714

As an example, here is a frame number where the last 4 digits have been changed. The absence of witness marks in the altered area is pronounced & the witness marks begin again a few inches further up the frame.

NOT to mention the number, according to VanPelt's is in the "1934" range!!




***DISREGARD this statement as I have been educated that VanPelts numbers are bogus**** 3/10/23 1:35est

[Kube]

Originally Posted by Tim Ayers

For a $94K car, I agree 100%. I have a pet peeve for things such hose clamps and other fasteners.

Not sure why, but my I gets drawn to them immediately.

For the underside of fenders, I guess the previous owner had to make a decision as to how far he wanted to go.

I can only assume when faced with the estimate of how much extra it was going to cost of finishing the underside of the fenders, he decided not to.

Tim, There is a general rule of thumb when restoring a car... To get the car to 90%, expect to spend X amount of time and X amount of money. To get to 100%, expect to double that IE 2X.
I have been witness to a LOT of cars that are beautiful but alas, are 90%.
In reality, there are very few TRUE #1 cars.

Guys like David Rehor and myself are a "dying breed".

[DavidG]

the.secret.victoria,


You are correct. Left over upholstery or open car top material with a sewn-in spring wire ring with outward 'bumps' in the wire to fit in the slots of the vertical portion of the lip surrounding the hole beneath the seat cushion.

[DavidG]

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Robert,


Looking again at the various photos, I now conclude that you are right, those are '34 bumpers.

[Newc]

'As Left the Factory' . Is a TOUGH standard to reach. Owners/shops should realize this fact. Then you can't drive it much at all. Newc

[rockfla]

Originally Posted by Newc

'As Left the Factory' . Is a TOUGH standard to reach. Owners/shops should realize this fact. Then you can't drive it much at all. Newc

Newc
I disagree,
it’s all about what you want to make it, i have found that if you are determined to make it right, you can!!! I “may” take more time than you think BUT it can be done…….it took me 25 years to find some Right hand drive engine tins, it cost me more in shipping and in taxes/fee’s BUT i found the correct German horn for
my 32. SO it’s not impossible!!! AND with good ole Fordbarn……possibilities are endless

[DavidG]

There are many aspects to the hobby. Not everyone wants to drive a 90-year-old car coast to coast. I have great respect for those that do, but that's but one aspect of the hobby and far from the only one.

[26 lakes]

These two pages are an excellent read. The knowledge on the Ford Barn can't be duplicated. Detail. The trained eye. Knowledge. That is what we are missing in this world. My hat is off to everyone that commented.

[Ol' Ron]

Not a very good "street" machine. "Too Perfect"!
Gramps

[SoCalCoupe]

Originally Posted by rockfla

Newc
I disagree,
it’s all about what you want to make it, i have found that if you are determined to make it right, you can!!! I “may” take more time than you think BUT it can be done…….it took me 25 years to find some Right hand drive engine tins, it cost me more in shipping and in taxes/fee’s BUT i found the correct German horn for
my 32. SO it’s not impossible!!! AND with good ole Fordbarn……possibilities are endless

Reread this a few times. I'll agree with both of you. Yes, it can be done and yes, once it's done you may experience a real hesitation to use a totally original #1 car as a driver.


My own car is near original, good looking and in great shape but I would have had to put quite a bit of effort into making it a real completely correct #1 original and keeping it in totally clean showroom condition. Went to a car show not soon after buying it an drove through an unexpected rain shower. That messed up the pristine underside quite a bit and really bothered me. Finally rationalized that even though I'd intended to never drive it in the rain, I did intend to drive it a lot.


It's dirty and will get more dirty. Not only that, it has a few minor leaks like other flatheads, so the engine compartment and underside are getting more dirty. I'm not going to polish the underside every time I drive it.


That all said, I didn't pay a premium price for my '41 Coupe and I doubt it would ever command a premium price even in perfect #1 condition. It's just not that desirable of a car.


Nothing wrong with making your car #1 perfect and/or keeping it showroom clean. I actually like the "as built" ethos and have changed out a few parts with no other benefit than making it more correct. I've also changed out a few other parts to make it a period-correct non-stock hot rod. IMHO there are many "right" ways to enjoy the hobby.


" AND with good ole Fordbarn……possibilities are endless."

[Ol' Ron]

I would like to build a street rod out of a 33/34 5 window coupe. 276ci engine AoD tarns IFS. and a few creacher comforts. Asa two seater it has a large trunk for travling.
But my building days are over.
Gramps

[rockfla]

Originally Posted by SoCalCoupe

Reread this a few times. I'll agree with both of you. Yes, it can be done and yes, once it's done you may experience a real hesitation to use a totally original #1 car as a driver.


My own car is near original, good looking and in great shape but I would have had to put quite a bit of effort into making it a real completely correct #1 original and keeping it in totally clean showroom condition. Went to a car show not soon after buying it an drove through an unexpected rain shower. That messed up the pristine underside quite a bit and really bothered me. Finally rationalized that even though I'd intended to never drive it in the rain, I did intend to drive it a lot.


It's dirty and will get more dirty. Not only that, it has a few minor leaks like other flatheads, so the engine compartment and underside are getting more dirty. I'm not going to polish the underside every time I drive it.


That all said, I didn't pay a premium price for my '41 Coupe and I doubt it would ever command a premium price even in perfect #1 condition. It's just not that desirable of a car.


Nothing wrong with making your car #1 perfect and/or keeping it showroom clean. I actually like the "as built" ethos and have changed out a few parts with no other benefit than making it more correct. I've also changed out a few other parts to make it a period-correct non-stock hot rod. IMHO there are many "right" ways to enjoy the hobby.


" AND with good ole Fordbarn……possibilities are endless."

NOT jumping on NEWC at all here!!!


BUT David is correct and you and your thoughts are correct as well!!! I guess my point IS, take my 39 Mercury.....sans the add on blinkers.....MY car is as close to "as Henry Built It" as I can possibly get it.....IT's not a "100%" car in the aspect of a "Show Car" BUT it is close to "as Henry Built It" as I can get it AND what is not, I am still on a quest to get it that way.....FOR example when I got it, it had the wrong bumpers on it, I looked around and found a set of bumpers that closely matched the patina of the car, not show quality but "correct"......I still drive and enjoy my car and in NO way will it win a "Dearborn"!!!!! SO.....As Henry built it doesn't mean a 1000 point Dearborn car IS my point (and SoCalCoupe's too)!!!!

[Tudie 36]

Very impressed with knowledge on this site. This one I know has several non original parts on it. Most of them by me not knowing what I was doing. Now I trust her for a long ride along with starting and stopping. I worked in my Dad’s. Body shop for a couple years in the early eighty’s so it was enamel, lacquer and then Imron. We did a pretty good job usually. I would like to know if this paint is possibly original? If not it had to have been completely disassembled. I know it’s Dull but I like it this way. Any thoughts on originality of paint? Thanks.





Well, I wrote all this then realized my pictures are crappy.

[restoman]

Two good heavy coats of high build epoxy primer and then, if needed a skim coat of bondo. Then wet sand until smooth and then one more coat of primer. All in a day's work for a good restoration.

[DavidG]

Tudie 36,


The color is about right for weathered "light fast maroon", an original '36 color, but the weathering if far too uniform to representative of the original enamel. Further, the pin stripe appears to be completely intact and they simply do not hold up to 87 years' worth of car washes and wax jobs.

[Tudie 36]

Originally Posted by DavidG

Tudie 36,


The color is about right for weathered "light fast maroon", an original '36 color, but the weathering if far too uniform to representative of the original enamel. Further, the pin stripe appears to be completely intact and they simply do not hold up to 87 years' worth of car washes and wax jobs.

Thanks for confirming the color. I was sure that was it, late April color added I believe. The car has several car show decals on the firewall from the early 80’s. I think that was when it was redone.