The Ford Barn

GB SISSON · 05-11-2018, 09:29 PM

With the good weather I have been driving my woodie around after work for runs into town etc. Still not finished, but did lots today. The woodie (47 ford 1/2 ton) has new kingpins and they are very tight, new tie rod ends and new wheel bearings with the special aftermarket toothed washers, but still it tends to wander around on our winding roads. I have carefully adjusted the toe in to 1/8" and am running brand new bias ply 6.50 x 16 truck tires with 30 lbs , Yet it darts side to side, not horrible, but not pleasant driving. I am suspecting the steering box, but I have read every thread in 'search' and am confused about the procedure. Some show a slotted screw head for adjusting with a hex lock nut around it. Some say "remove the lock nut" Remove??? With my best reading glasses on and my new LED trouble light I see no slot in the 'adjusting bolt'. Also there is that 6 pointed star thing with rounded corners below it. Does that index or lock one of the adjusters in? Bottom line is this... Is the hex nut a lock nut? If so, how does one turn the adjusting screw, and what is the star thing, just a decoration?

FlatheadTed · 05-11-2018, 11:13 PM

GB The nut you see above the star washer is a cap lock nut ,you remove it in a counter clock wise manner this exsposes the slot in the thrust bolt ,you then remove the star washer and screw the slotted bolt down this brings the roller closer to the worm ,If you have the control arm removed from the sector you can wriggle it to see if there's any play as you tighten, or you can wriggle the steering wheel to see if its improving .when satisfied you do the reverse assemble and the key in the star washer locks into the side of the slotted bolt, You may want to look at caster and shocks and the sea saw affect on spring shackles. Ted

Mart · 05-12-2018, 02:01 AM

GB, when you said prone to wander, I was thinking yeah, my mind is getting like that too.

FH Ted's guidance is spot on. There are many threads on here describing steering box adjustment, I know I have described it a few times.

Once you get at the actual screw as Ted has said, you will be able to apply the procedure for adjustment.

Mart.

Paul Bennett · 05-12-2018, 02:41 AM

I recall reading some about how complicated the steering box is to adjust. Is there someone (Van Pelt perhaps) who is reputed for rebuilding the box to new like performance?

Step-down · 05-12-2018, 05:54 AM

Cast 6 degrees

Kube · 05-12-2018, 07:56 AM

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Many folks do not address caster when rebuilding the front chassis. It must be addressed. Usually it is fine - usually. However, if it is not within specification, you may have a "wandering" vehicle.
The steering gear adjustment can be part of the solution to your issue. However, tightening the gear adjustment is only going to serve as a helpful "Band-Aid" and not truly address the underlying problem.
If your spindle pin(s) / bushing(s) fit is too tight, they won't allow the chassis to straighten itself out in "real time".
Also, I tend to set my toe-in past the 1/8" specification. That helps a lot to bring the vehicle to center. Yes, the tires will wear just a tad quicker this way, but in reality, they (tires) will weather check long before this will show its ugly face.
As has been previously suggested, the springs, and shackle pins must be proper as well.
Shock absorbers should be in good condition but won't effect the wandering too much. Still, they should be inspected and repaired as necessary.

RalphM · 05-12-2018, 08:11 AM

The nice thing about a truck GB is that your caster is easily adjustable. On leaf spring front ends a thin wedge can be installed between the axle and spring. Thicker end of wedge to rear.
The slotted style allows for install easier.

Kurt in NJ · 05-12-2018, 08:17 AM

"has new kingpins and they are very tight" ---does this mean they are stiff to move? ---or move easy, but no play ----if they are stiff to move it won't help your wander problem

V8COOPMAN · 05-12-2018, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurt in NJ

"has new kingpins and they are very tight" ---does this mean they are stiff to move? ---or move easy, but no play ----if they are stiff to move it won't help your wander problem

Hmmm.....Aren't these the king pin bushings that you honed using Momma's wooden kitchen spoon and sandpaper flaps? Might just turn-out that there's a slightly BETTER (more precise) method. Just sayin'! DD

flatford8 · 05-12-2018, 08:30 AM

“ All those who wander are not lost”.....not that it matters here, but I know a woman who has that tattooed on her......is the wandering play in the steering wheel or it doesn’t come back to center easily?....... Mark

4dFord/SC · 05-12-2018, 08:40 AM

"Prone to wander, Lord, I feel it...."

expavr · 05-12-2018, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RalphM

The nice thing about a truck GB is that your caster is easily adjustable. On leaf spring front ends a thin wedge can be installed between the axle and spring. Thicker end of wedge to rear.
The slotted style allows for install easier.

Gary
After completely rebuilding the front axle and steering components on the tonner it was prone to “wander” as you are describing. I took it to an alignment shop that worked on truck I beam axles and found the caster to be out of spec ( 1* minimum - 3 1/2* maximum). As Ralph suggests we installed one 2* slotted aftermarket wedge made for off-road Jeep performance on each side which reduced that “loosey goosey” driving sensation considerably. As I recall we ended up at 2 1/2* caster and 1/8” toe-in on the alignment rack.
Les

GB SISSON · 05-12-2018, 10:13 AM

Ok, lots of good info here. Thanks! The kingpins are tight meaning no slop or play. I took a video on my phone showing the very slow drop of the pins dropping on their own weight with 3 in one oil on them after honing. I also replaced the front springs with a better set and installed new pins/bushings at that time. I'm pretty sure I used those wedges as well. I will check when I get down to the shop. Who knows, I may have them in backwards. I understand from my search that I may have to remove a shim or two as well. I also noticed last night that I had a very low tire on the rear, which may be some or even all of the problem, so will have to repair that today.

expavr · 05-12-2018, 01:13 PM

“I also noticed last night that I had a very low tire on the rear, which may be some or even all of the problem, so will have to repair that today.”

That would definitely contribute to the problem. “Under inflation of tires, especially rear tires.” is the first item on the Steering Troubleshooting Checklist in the 39-48 Shop Manual.

GB SISSON · 05-12-2018, 01:34 PM

Thanks Les. It's such good varnishing weather today I have been routing doors for glass channel so I can seal up the raw wood and third coat the doors this afternoon. I'm going to bust out the tire irons and my patch kit later today, fix the tire and check all the other items mentioned. With those stiff 6 ply 'regrooveable' snow tires I might just run that one into the gas station in town. Oh, never mind that's a 24 mile round trip and then they'll say I need a new tube. The one in there is six months old and has about 300 miles on it. Besides, I like a challenge.

1Tudoor · 05-12-2018, 01:47 PM

I agree w/ Kube , too little or no toe in alone can account for wandering .

Mart · 05-12-2018, 02:15 PM

Make sure the valve stem core is ok before tearing anything apart. I had one that needed a new core, it's always worth a try first. A bit of spit around the valve stem should be enough to work out if it is leaking or not. (I'm sure you knew that)

Mart.

Ggmac · 05-12-2018, 02:39 PM

If you raised the rear of the truck , by any means ( new higher arched springs , taller tires etc) or lowered your front end , you will have changed your caster . For the worse .

GB SISSON · 05-12-2018, 11:18 PM

Only a set of better springs that were on the back half of a frame I had. I don't lower anything and it has 6.50 x 16s all around. Sorry to keep you all in suspense but I was still varnishing about 4:15 and I needed to go meet a fish boat from Alaska. A friend comes down twice a year with a flash frozen catch and sells locally, so we get six months worth at a time. By the time I got home it was dinnertime. I DID however go and check that rear tire. I filled it to 32 lbs last night. 24 hours later it is now 26 lbs. I'm gonna guess it had ten lbs last night before I filled it. I'm still gonna adjust the steering box even if that rear tire was the culprit. I just like to have things dialed in just right. Kinda like my kingpins.

Ggmac · 05-13-2018, 07:02 AM

If you could load it up pretty heavy and it gets better , it's probably caster . I know the load will make your front end feel like power steering but I'm just talking wander . If it's worse with an empty load , I'd say toe or box . Don't forget your toe will change , just a little as caster changes . I'd also agree to go a little more than 1/8" toe .

05-11-2018, 09:29 PM	#1
GB SISSON Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Orcas Island Washington Posts: 4,945	Prone to wander With the good weather I have been driving my woodie around after work for runs into town etc. Still not finished, but did lots today. The woodie (47 ford 1/2 ton) has new kingpins and they are very tight, new tie rod ends and new wheel bearings with the special aftermarket toothed washers, but still it tends to wander around on our winding roads. I have carefully adjusted the toe in to 1/8" and am running brand new bias ply 6.50 x 16 truck tires with 30 lbs , Yet it darts side to side, not horrible, but not pleasant driving. I am suspecting the steering box, but I have read every thread in 'search' and am confused about the procedure. Some show a slotted screw head for adjusting with a hex lock nut around it. Some say "remove the lock nut" Remove??? With my best reading glasses on and my new LED trouble light I see no slot in the 'adjusting bolt'. Also there is that 6 pointed star thing with rounded corners below it. Does that index or lock one of the adjusters in? Bottom line is this... Is the hex nut a lock nut? If so, how does one turn the adjusting screw, and what is the star thing, just a decoration? __________________ Owner/Operator of 'Jailbar Ranch' on the side of Mt. Pickett. Current stable consists of 1946 1/2 ton pickup turned woodie wagon with FH V8, 1947 Tonner Pickup (red) mostly stock with exception of a cummins 6at turbo diesel, 1946 Tonner Pickup (green) with 226 cu in 6 cyl flathead, 1979 Toyota landcruiser wagon, completely encased in 1947 Ford Jailbar sheet metal. Ok, cornbinder rear fenders..... 'Rusty ol' floorboards, hot on their feet' (Alan Jackson)

05-11-2018, 11:13 PM	#2
FlatheadTed Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Auckland Posts: 4,705	Re: Prone to wander GB The nut you see above the star washer is a cap lock nut ,you remove it in a counter clock wise manner this exsposes the slot in the thrust bolt ,you then remove the star washer and screw the slotted bolt down this brings the roller closer to the worm ,If you have the control arm removed from the sector you can wriggle it to see if there's any play as you tighten, or you can wriggle the steering wheel to see if its improving .when satisfied you do the reverse assemble and the key in the star washer locks into the side of the slotted bolt, You may want to look at caster and shocks and the sea saw affect on spring shackles. Ted __________________ http://www.flatheadted.com Flathead Ted brake Floaters ,

05-12-2018, 02:01 AM	#3
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,756	Re: Prone to wander GB, when you said prone to wander, I was thinking yeah, my mind is getting like that too. FH Ted's guidance is spot on. There are many threads on here describing steering box adjustment, I know I have described it a few times. Once you get at the actual screw as Ted has said, you will be able to apply the procedure for adjustment. Mart.

05-12-2018, 02:41 AM	#4
Paul Bennett Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 628	Re: Prone to wander I recall reading some about how complicated the steering box is to adjust. Is there someone (Van Pelt perhaps) who is reputed for rebuilding the box to new like performance?

05-12-2018, 05:54 AM	#5
Step-down Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Hat City (Danbury CT) Posts: 647	Re: Prone to wander Cast 6 degrees __________________ "I can't cry as long as I know the Lord has risen "

05-12-2018, 07:56 AM	#6
Kube Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Wisconsin, USA Posts: 9,010	Re: Prone to wander Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Many folks do not address caster when rebuilding the front chassis. It must be addressed. Usually it is fine - usually. However, if it is not within specification, you may have a "wandering" vehicle. The steering gear adjustment can be part of the solution to your issue. However, tightening the gear adjustment is only going to serve as a helpful "Band-Aid" and not truly address the underlying problem. If your spindle pin(s) / bushing(s) fit is too tight, they won't allow the chassis to straighten itself out in "real time". Also, I tend to set my toe-in past the 1/8" specification. That helps a lot to bring the vehicle to center. Yes, the tires will wear just a tad quicker this way, but in reality, they (tires) will weather check long before this will show its ugly face. As has been previously suggested, the springs, and shackle pins must be proper as well. Shock absorbers should be in good condition but won't effect the wandering too much. Still, they should be inspected and repaired as necessary. __________________ "I can explain it for you. However, I can't understand it for you".

05-12-2018, 08:17 AM	#8
Kurt in NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: on the Littlefield Posts: 6,159	Re: Prone to wander "has new kingpins and they are very tight" ---does this mean they are stiff to move? ---or move easy, but no play ----if they are stiff to move it won't help your wander problem

05-12-2018, 08:30 AM	#10
flatford8 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Lyman,ME. Posts: 2,630	Re: Prone to wander “ All those who wander are not lost”.....not that it matters here, but I know a woman who has that tattooed on her......is the wandering play in the steering wheel or it doesn’t come back to center easily?....... Mark __________________ I'm thinkin' about crankin' My ragged ol' truck up and haulin' myself into town. Billy Joe Shaver

05-12-2018, 08:40 AM	#11
4dFord/SC Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Columbia, SC Posts: 1,579	Re: Prone to wander "Prone to wander, Lord, I feel it...."

05-12-2018, 01:13 PM	#14
expavr Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Hansville, WA Posts: 776	Re: Prone to wander “I also noticed last night that I had a very low tire on the rear, which may be some or even all of the problem, so will have to repair that today.” That would definitely contribute to the problem. “Under inflation of tires, especially rear tires.” is the first item on the Steering Troubleshooting Checklist in the 39-48 Shop Manual.

05-12-2018, 01:34 PM	#15
GB SISSON Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Orcas Island Washington Posts: 4,945	Re: Prone to wander Thanks Les. It's such good varnishing weather today I have been routing doors for glass channel so I can seal up the raw wood and third coat the doors this afternoon. I'm going to bust out the tire irons and my patch kit later today, fix the tire and check all the other items mentioned. With those stiff 6 ply 'regrooveable' snow tires I might just run that one into the gas station in town. Oh, never mind that's a 24 mile round trip and then they'll say I need a new tube. The one in there is six months old and has about 300 miles on it. Besides, I like a challenge. __________________ Owner/Operator of 'Jailbar Ranch' on the side of Mt. Pickett. Current stable consists of 1946 1/2 ton pickup turned woodie wagon with FH V8, 1947 Tonner Pickup (red) mostly stock with exception of a cummins 6at turbo diesel, 1946 Tonner Pickup (green) with 226 cu in 6 cyl flathead, 1979 Toyota landcruiser wagon, completely encased in 1947 Ford Jailbar sheet metal. Ok, cornbinder rear fenders..... 'Rusty ol' floorboards, hot on their feet' (Alan Jackson)

05-12-2018, 01:47 PM	#16
1Tudoor Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Upstate in NY's beautifull hills Posts: 173	Re: Prone to wander I agree w/ Kube , too little or no toe in alone can account for wandering . __________________ Progress is our most important problem

05-12-2018, 02:15 PM	#17
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,756	Re: Prone to wander Make sure the valve stem core is ok before tearing anything apart. I had one that needed a new core, it's always worth a try first. A bit of spit around the valve stem should be enough to work out if it is leaking or not. (I'm sure you knew that) Mart.

05-12-2018, 02:39 PM	#18
Ggmac Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Lake worth Florida Posts: 1,104	Re: Prone to wander If you raised the rear of the truck , by any means ( new higher arched springs , taller tires etc) or lowered your front end , you will have changed your caster . For the worse .

05-12-2018, 11:18 PM	#19
GB SISSON Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Orcas Island Washington Posts: 4,945	Re: Prone to wander Only a set of better springs that were on the back half of a frame I had. I don't lower anything and it has 6.50 x 16s all around. Sorry to keep you all in suspense but I was still varnishing about 4:15 and I needed to go meet a fish boat from Alaska. A friend comes down twice a year with a flash frozen catch and sells locally, so we get six months worth at a time. By the time I got home it was dinnertime. I DID however go and check that rear tire. I filled it to 32 lbs last night. 24 hours later it is now 26 lbs. I'm gonna guess it had ten lbs last night before I filled it. I'm still gonna adjust the steering box even if that rear tire was the culprit. I just like to have things dialed in just right. Kinda like my kingpins. __________________ Owner/Operator of 'Jailbar Ranch' on the side of Mt. Pickett. Current stable consists of 1946 1/2 ton pickup turned woodie wagon with FH V8, 1947 Tonner Pickup (red) mostly stock with exception of a cummins 6at turbo diesel, 1946 Tonner Pickup (green) with 226 cu in 6 cyl flathead, 1979 Toyota landcruiser wagon, completely encased in 1947 Ford Jailbar sheet metal. Ok, cornbinder rear fenders..... 'Rusty ol' floorboards, hot on their feet' (Alan Jackson)

05-13-2018, 07:02 AM	#20
Ggmac Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Lake worth Florida Posts: 1,104	Re: Prone to wander If you could load it up pretty heavy and it gets better , it's probably caster . I know the load will make your front end feel like power steering but I'm just talking wander . If it's worse with an empty load , I'd say toe or box . Don't forget your toe will change , just a little as caster changes . I'd also agree to go a little more than 1/8" toe .