Brakes and Brake Rods

[History]

I am rebuilding the brakes on 30 sport coupe after I had really strong rear brakes and not much on the front. I welded up and flattened the roller guides using the already flat in worn parts as a guide. I believe I’m pretty close, much better than it was. Here’s where I’m hitting a small wall,,,,,,, the front arms were both over center toward the back of the car so I knew there was wear. I installed new rollers and pins was going to put a new rod in but mine was fine. I did install two pills to get the lever where it’s supposed to be and now I can’t get enough brake rod to hook back up. I installed new cross shaft bushings and also had all rods disconnected and still couldn’t get the front rod to reach, including turning the adjustment end. I wonder if someone could have shortened the rod/s to accommodate wear??? The levers are really close to the angle they need to be at. Thanks for any insight.

[Bob C]

Are the arms on the brake cross shaft straight up and down?

[Ivan in southeast va.]

I had the same problem. I got new brake rods from Snyders. Look at the difference. New rod on the left compared to old rod on the right.

[History]

Originally Posted by Bob C

Are the arms on the brake cross shaft straight up and down?

I took everything loose from the cross shaft when I installed the bushings on it so I went further than straight up and down and still wouldn’t reach. I believe that someone has cut part of it off to be able to adjust when the Clovis part bottomed out on the threaded part. I dont know that for fact but can’t figure out any other reason. I had wrongly assumed the rods were threaded on each end. 🙁

[History]

Originally Posted by Ivan in southeast va.

I had the same problem. I got new brake rods from Snyders. Look at the difference. New rod on the left compared to old rod on the right.

That looks like how short mine is to connecting. Thanks, looks like I’m ordering rods.

[bobbader]

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If your front arms were leaning toward the back rather than the front, you can be pretty sure a former owner cut the end of the front brake rods and chased the threads down lower on the rod in order to adjust the clevis ends to the “slant” of the actuating arms. New brake rods need to be in your future. Don’t skimp, buy all 4 service rods and both ebrake rods. This way, you’ll know you’ve established the correct frame of reference to start your adjustments.

It’s also important to take a look at the rod that goes in between the brake pedal and service brake crosshaft. Unhook all service rods from the crosshaft. Adjust the clevis on the pedal rod so that, when the pedal is all the way up, the flat on the end of the pedal rod is just shy of bottoming on the interior wall at the back of the center frame crossmember. When that adjustment is correct and the pedal is all the way in the upward position, the service rod levers on the ends of the crosshaft should be perpendicular to the side frame rail ............ or, at 6 o’clock and 12 o’clock. Now, with the correct length new service rods, you can go about correctly adjusting the service clevises to the angles of front and rear brake actuating levers with confidence that you’ve started the exercise correctly.

Good luck. Bob Bader

[Patrick L.]

It sounds as though your front rods have been cut, kinda common. Measure them, I think the measurement is 50.5". new ones are readily available.

[WHN]

Do the complete job! Get all new brake rods. Not expensive.

[History]

Thanks for all the replies and to you Bob for taking the time to type the longer explanation. Under the hub I greased where the adjustment wedges go but do I lube anything else, rollers or any of those parts?

[bobbader]

I lubricate all moving parts when doing a brake system rebuild. When I rebuild things like the fear service and ebrake shafts and bushings, I pre-lube before assembly before assembly and apply through the grease fitting afterwards.

Some folks are dead set against any lubricant on parts inside the backing plates and drums (except wheel bearings). They worry that the grease will attract and trap brake dust and, over time, create problems. I’ve used white lube on moving internal parts forever with no such problems. I was taught to do so when I worked on tractor trailer brake systems. I believe at least initial lubrication of all these parts will limit premature wear and/or rust accumulation. While it is true you may take apart a Model A brake system that has sat or has been unserviced for years and find grease that has turned hard or wax-like in consistency and with built up dirt as well, most of this comes from lack of use and poor servicing practices. Remember, these cars are all over 90 years old now and have had their share of both experienced and inexperienced mechanics working on them over that time. White lube works for me. Manufacturers such as Permatex make lubricant especially for such purposes on modern cars. MY ONE CAUTION ............. You only need a light coat of lube on any given part. Never “glob” the grease on with the expectation that doing so will make this application last for the next 90 years. Accept the idea that it’s probably good practice to pull the drums and inspect brake system internals every couple of years.

[WHN]

Originally Posted by bobbader

I lubricate all moving parts when doing a brake system rebuild. When I rebuild things like the fear service and ebrake shafts and bushings, I pre-lube before assembly before assembly and apply through the grease fitting afterwards.

Some folks are dead set against any lubricant on parts inside the backing plates and drums (except wheel bearings). They worry that the grease will attract and trap brake dust and, over time, create problems. I’ve used white lube on moving internal parts forever with no such problems. I was taught to do so when I worked on tractor trailer brake systems. I believe at least initial lubrication of all these parts will limit premature wear and/or rust accumulation. While it is true you may take apart a Model A brake system that has sat or has been unserviced for years and find grease that has turned hard or wax-like in consistency and with built up dirt as well, most of this comes from lack of use and poor servicing practices. Remember, these cars are all over 90 years old now and have had their share of both experienced and inexperienced mechanics working on them over that time. White lube works for me. Manufacturers such as Permatex make lubricant especially for such purposes on modern cars. MY ONE CAUTION ............. You only need a light coat of lube on any given part. Never “glob” the grease on with the expectation that doing so will make this application last for the next 90 years. Accept the idea that it’s probably good practice to pull the drums and inspect brake system internals every couple of years.

Good advice. Especially your comment about inexperienced mechanics working on them!

I think this is the current biggest problem with most Model A’s.

[Gene F]

Why would anyone ever cut the brake rods off to start with?

[bobbader]

Gene,

They cut the brake rods because when the front levers lean back past 12 o’clock the threaded end is to long to adjust the clevis to the position of the lever. So, they cut off an inch or two of the threaded end, cut the threads down further on the rod, and, then, they are able to adjust the clevises to meet the levers. They are unaware that something else might be wrong when those levers lean that far rearward (instead of the desired 15 degree forward lean). Of course, once they get done, they have ruined the thought that the brake rods can ever be right again and their front brakes still don’t work correctly because the actuating levers are already past the point of maximum leverage. Shortening the brake rods, while not correct, seemed only too appropriate to the person with the hack saw in hand at the time. Ultimately, taking a little more time to understand how mechanical brakes work would have been a better move. Many antique cars change hands because former owners couldn’t put up with systems that still didn’t function properly because the owner didn’t understand how to rebuild it properly. The next owner then gets to deal with his own proficiency at such things and, in turn, feeds the “frenzy” that affords us all the camaraderie, community, and fact sharing of wonderful venues like FORDBARN. Lucky us !!!

[Bill G]

The initial length of each of the four brake rods should be 51-7/16 to 51-1/2. Often times these lengths get adjusted out, but that should be a starting point. If you cannot reach that range of lengths (eye-to-eye) then you will need to get new rods.

[Patrick L.]

Originally Posted by Gene F

Why would anyone ever cut the brake rods off to start with?

Seems to have been done quite often trying to get the brakes 'adjusted right'. I guess that means different things to different people.