03-05-2013, 01:13 PM | #1 |
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Camshafts
What kind of experience have folks had with regrinds vs new B camshafts? I need a new B camshaft in an engine I am building as the one I have has been reground to A specs with 2.72 lift. I would like to find a reground 3.30 as I hate spending the $400.00 for a new one. Am I looking for the impossible?
Saw a regrind from one of the premier parts dealers that I wouldn't take to the scrap yard. It was pitted and had undersized 1.52 journals. Rick Jensen |
03-05-2013, 01:19 PM | #2 |
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Re: Camshafts
Have you measured the cam bore in your block? Worn cam bores (mainly the center one) are the best excuse for ordering a New Stipe cam with oversized journals. Some decent A and B cores for regrind are still out there with minimal wear. Rod
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03-05-2013, 01:41 PM | #3 |
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Re: Camshafts
You get what you pay for. If you had a choice of spending $100 to weld up and whack a bunch of metal off an old head to raise the compression, resulting in less performance than a new $400 high comp. head, which head would you choose? Some people go for the cheaper option. Likewise with the cam.
Consistency becomes another issue. No two regrinds are alike, either in profile (despite being ground from the same master) nor in the core bearing surface diameter and gear wear. All "B" profile, and most other performance grinds, use a rather dated geometry that requires larger lifter faces than some of the currently available adjustable "A" lifters. All the new Stipe cams are consistent in dimension and profile and the profiles use modernized ramp geometry that will run on the single-lock lifters currently available. Again, you get what you pay for. |
03-05-2013, 02:11 PM | #4 |
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Re: Camshafts
Jim Brierley grinds one with 325 lift and calls it a C cam. I am running a regrind from Bill Stipe that is called the Super street Winfield 3/4 race. This is his most popular regrind and I am happy with it. Of course a worn out cam can't be reground with much success so core condition is everything . I had my good cam core reground for only $125.00 . Lobe height on model A-B cams are only .001 less than bearing diameter height and can't be increased. The only way to increase lift is grinding material off the heel and using a longer or adjustable lifter.. Lift can be greatly increased by grinding in the right place .
Last edited by Purdy Swoft; 03-05-2013 at 09:48 PM. |
03-05-2013, 02:26 PM | #5 |
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Re: Camshafts
Also Rick, please be aware of cam advertisements on ebay -- bought a $20.00, "But-it-Now" (B) cam advertised as a never used NOS cam -- owner swore it was never used. Received it, checked out each lift, lobes were not too far off but somewhat worn -- did not bother to pay postage to return it & ask for refund -- did not bother to see how it worked in comparison with my (A) cam -- like MikeK says, "You get what you pay for." -- very glad I got a "new" #IB 330 cam from Stipe Machine Company -- wow, what a huge difference in performance while used in conjunction with my existing "B" Police Head that I already had.
Last edited by H. L. Chauvin; 03-05-2013 at 02:31 PM. Reason: typo |
03-05-2013, 03:31 PM | #6 |
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Re: Camshafts
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Thanks in advance.
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03-05-2013, 04:20 PM | #7 |
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Re: Camshafts
Not to try to be facetious, but in my opinion, the sound difference with different cams among many Model A drivers is directly proportional to the Model A driver's age & his decibel perception.
With my less than normal hearing, there was not very much difference between an Ib - 330 Stipe cam & a well used Model A cam. Many will no doubt hear & report something differently -- human hearing is a difficult science -- in general the stock (A) cam will no doubt sound somewhat different. Furthermore, manufacturers of sound equipment know that if one were to have three (3) separate different combination radio/receivers, coupled with three (3) different separate tape recorders, also coupled with three (3) different pairs of speakers, all playing the exact same music with different combinations of same, it would be difficult to get (20) people to agree that a combination from the same one (1) of each component plays the same best music. If everyone perceived sound alike, one (1) acoustic guitar or one (1) violin could be made to satisfy all customers. Last edited by H. L. Chauvin; 03-05-2013 at 04:22 PM. Reason: typo |
03-05-2013, 04:33 PM | #8 |
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Re: Camshafts
I tried several re grinds from well regarded grinders. On 3/4 Winfield grind from a guy in Portland was pretty darn good. With the others, I got good performance but bad idle, good idle and bad performance and bad idle and bad performance I finally bit the bullet and bought Bills 330. It outshines them all by a lot. Its one of those deals where you forget the sting of the price soon, and the sweetness goes on for a long time after.
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03-05-2013, 04:42 PM | #9 |
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Re: Camshafts
Thanks for everyone's comments. Sounds like I need to pay the piper if I want to fix this engine once and be done with it. As they say, "the foundation is everything". Just ask this guy in the Florida sink hole. Thanks Guys
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03-05-2013, 04:47 PM | #10 |
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Re: Camshafts
I have two engines with winfield grinds one is the popular super street 3/4 race 317 lift . I don't have the spec sheet on the one in the speedster. Both will idel smooth but not quite as slowly as a stock model A cam. either will still idle with the model A cackle with the spark retarded, even the roadster that runs a lighter B flywheel . I've got others with complete original type engines with no mods that will count em off slower.
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03-05-2013, 05:00 PM | #11 | |
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Re: Camshafts
Quote:
I was talking with a guy who stated that he got a Winfield 3/4 with .352 lift. I'm looking for a cam to replace my nos B that was placed in my B 1200 mi ago. I'm not sure HOW (besides trial/error which is expensive) a guy goes about determining exactly what lift to seek/order. How many Winfield 3/4 cam lift variations are there? Also, specifically what factors are use to determine correct lift for a specific engine? |
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03-05-2013, 05:05 PM | #12 | |
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Re: Camshafts
Quote:
For a spec comparison of A,B, and the first three Stipe cams, look at Vince's website. Here's the page: LINK |
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03-05-2013, 05:15 PM | #13 |
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Re: Camshafts
Bill Stipe has a pretty good explanation of what to expect with the various cam grinds that he provides on his website. I found it very informative.
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03-05-2013, 07:34 PM | #14 |
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Re: Camshafts
Thanks guys, and sorry if it was a little off the original topic.
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03-05-2013, 08:24 PM | #15 |
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Re: Camshafts
Jim Brairley in Temecula, CA. does mine and I'm happy.
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03-05-2013, 09:40 PM | #16 | |
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Re: Camshafts
Quote:
A cam discussion came up on the other model A site and several liked the Winfield 3/4 race grind. It idles good and seems to give more power. It sounded good for a street driven car. I have other mods as I know that you do. It all works together. Without the addition of a higher compression head no cam is going to help much. Your may want a hotter cam. your best bet would be to talk to some cam grinders like Bill stipe or Jim Brierley. they could better advise you. I didn't really know what cam to use. I had a real good core that met the specs that Bill required for the regrind . At one hundred and twenty five dollars it sounded even better. I haven't heard of the 352 lift version but there were lots of different Winfield cams. |
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03-05-2013, 11:05 PM | #17 |
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Re: Camshafts
Hey Purdy,
It ain't going to 'break the bank', but it is also more money than most just want to 'waste' on trial/error! I have a B that was measured my a machinist and it checked out to be nos in his opinion. I'm torn between having one of these cam guys doing that cam or Stipe new. Hm, choices are good...as long as you make the correct one. BTW..besides B. Stipe (new) , J. Brierley (regrind)...there's Pete, who posts here also. I think that Pete also makes cams, although he doesn't advertise. So at least three to choose from! PS..Don't know whether you guys are aware, but Bill Stipe is moving from his frozen northern abode, to the sunny south. Sure hope he continues to contribute here! His products for A/B are amazing!! |
03-05-2013, 11:07 PM | #18 |
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Re: Camshafts
Also check Piranios Antique Automotive's website for cams. This past summer set a landspeed record in a Model A Coupe running a much modified Model A flathead engine. He does a lot of R&D on the "A" engines from bone stock to touring to race.
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03-06-2013, 11:08 AM | #19 |
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Re: Camshafts
Just for info, Winfield ground what he called his SU1R in 3 different lifts that I know of. They were .315", .350" and .375". He wouldn't sell a guy a cam that he thought the couldn't handle. The one I sell has .350" lift and 270* duration and makes a great touring cam but I don't recommend it unless the engine will have other mods done to it.
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03-06-2013, 11:29 AM | #20 |
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Re: Camshafts
Pete mentioned using a 49-50 Mercury 8CM grind with a model A cam , a few days ago.
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