Champion 3X Spark plug drawings and pictures

[FL&WVMIKE]

Originally Posted by mot

champion 3s were used before the model A They added the X for the model As
champion made spark plugs for all cars
for example the 3s were used in Cunninghams,Stewarts,clevelands,Dodges,Marmons,Mit chells,Rollins,Oaklands,
Stars,Ajax,etc
they do not list the ones with ford script in this chart
tom

mot ..................
What a great chart ! You should reproduce that and market it !
Thank you,
MIKE

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Marco Tahtaras

I'm surprised this thread is still active!

Ok, I'll add a little more. If you study the plugs you will find the Champion 3 and 3X you will find the only difference is the markings on the porcelain. I don't know but suspect the 3X was a Ford exclusive. It was certainly marketed strictly for the Ford car (four cylinder) at least into 1932. The Champion 3 was marketed for all other cars and trucks that required the same plug. Both Ford and Champion had a lot at stake in maintaining market share of service parts for more than 4.5 Million Model A's put on the road. The 3X plug was a marketing distinction. There was no other purpose in creating a special marking for the already existing Champion 3.

For some reason folks seem to think just because a plug will screw into a Model A head it must be for a Model A! There were thousands of different makes and models of cars and trucks built in the 20's and early 30's that required spark plugs.

Anyone out there that has era catalogs (1929-32) with usage listings of Champion plugs should be able to add to, or correct what I've said here.

Marco; I talked with Roger K. down in FLA. in the spring & showed him what I am going to say here.. You say the only difference in the #3 & the 3X is in the porcelian markings.. I agree on that for the core piece.. But the base section on the outside looks the same as the normal 1928/29/30 but on the inside it is different.. The shape of the #3 core is the same as the 30/31 core.. You can not take a 28/29/30 core and put it in the early #3 base.. The early #3 base is machined deeper to except the later style 30/31 core which the early #3 core is.. I have some NOS of each if you would like to see them.. Roger said, I guess we missed that one .. Fred..

[jw hash]

the champion # 3 plug was used in the 1927 lincoln but for the lincoln the brass cap was nickle plated. I thank that ford was already using the #3 plug when the model A was first produced an that may be why they used them at first. but here is the big difference between the plugs, the #3 plug uses the same porcelain as the 30-31 3X if you take one apart you will see a step inside like 30-31 But if you try to put a 30-31 core in a #3 base the lettering will be under the upper nut, if you need some pictures I would be more then happy to send you some. I do have a #3 plug that still is nickle plated, John Hash

[Marco Tahtaras]

Originally Posted by Fred

Marco; I talked with Roger K. down in FLA. in the spring & showed him what I am going to say here.. You say the only difference in the #3 & the 3X is in the porcelian markings.. I agree on that for the core piece.. But the base section on the outside looks the same as the normal 1928/29/30 but on the inside it is different.. The shape of the #3 core is the same as the 30/31 core.. You can not take a 28/29/30 core and put it in the early #3 base.. The early #3 base is machined deeper to except the later style 30/31 core which the early #3 core is.. I have some NOS of each if you would like to see them.. Roger said, I guess we missed that one .. Fred..

What you are describing is the transitional plug with the tall hex, deep pocket, and NEW type core. I have a 3X like that. One of the things Ed Eaton was kind enough to include in his article was an original late '28 drawing of the no. 3 showing it to be just like our common tall hex 3X including the core. From what I've seen over the last 30 years I'm confident the no.3 and 3X followed the same engineering changes at the same time.

[mot]

here are some pictures of three cores
two are 3X and the middle one is a 3
notice on the left 3X core there is a number 566 on the back side
the three other plugs are all Ford plugs
they look exactly like a 3X but only have ford on them,no number
and the last picture showing a vintage catalog and the only car that takes the 3X is the model A
tom

[mot]

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john
is your lincoln plug like this?
tom

[mot]

heres another 3X plug
it dosnt have an electrode
used only in the ashtray
tom

[Marco Tahtaras]

Note the early style core. The only thing different between these two drawings is the APPROXIMATE assembled height (1/16") and the dates. I'll bet the description would match on a mid '28 3X drawing even though it's of limited significance.

[mot]

in case anyone wants to see the difference between a Ford script plug and a 3x
plug
here are two NOS cores
tom

[jw hash]

Mot
first I like your ash tray, I have looked for one of them for years, on the nickle plated plug if yours has a 3 on the back it looks to be for a Lincoln, Marco & Mot I have never seen a long #3 core like the like the drawing shows all of the #3 cores I have seen are short like the later 3X. even the #3 later replacement cores are the short ones I not saying they are not out there just that I have never seen one, I to have a lot of NOS #3`s and 3X plugs & cores I`m just not that good yet on putting pictures on here,

[Marco Tahtaras]

Originally Posted by jw hash

Mot
first I like your ash tray, I have looked for one of them for years, on the nickle plated plug if yours has a 3 on the back it looks to be for a Lincoln, Marco & Mot I have never seen a long #3 core like the like the drawing shows all of the #3 cores I have seen are short like the later 3X. even the #3 later replacement cores are the short ones I not saying they are not out there just that I have never seen one, I to have a lot of NOS #3`s and 3X plugs & cores I`m just not that good yet on putting pictures on here,

I'm not surprised the early type is not common. Think about our 3X plugs. There were more than 8 million tall hex plugs installed in new cars and millions more sold through service before the design change. They are not common at all today compared to the later type. To find any of the early type No. 3 plugs you would likely have to scrounge for old crusty, corroded plugs like the condition we would typically skip over.

Tom sent me the following two pages from a Western Auto catalog. The first page illustrates the cleaver marketing of the 3X plugs to maximize market share as I described earlier. The second shows some of "the competition" which show their Model A plug to be the Champion No. 3. equivalent based on usage.

[d.j. moordigian]

This has been a great thread.

Some of you may not realize the little plugs in Tom's butt tray are real, working
plugs. The were used in model airplane engines and such.

Dudley

[FL&WVMIKE]

mot ........................

Sure glad that you decided to put in your "2 cents" worth. You have some nice pieces !

PHOTO 1..... I have one of those ashtrays, but mine is later. It is from the mid 30s and has a V8 Flathead Ford plug in it (C-7).
As I understand it, these ashtrays were made by the SILLIMANITE COMPANY, the company that made the porcelain for Champion. I am guessing that they were distributed to retailers by the Champion salespeople.

PHOTO 2..... An example of the replacement spark plugs, sold at the Ford Garages, in the mid-late 30s and later.

PHOTO 3..... Nothing to do with Ford, but an air cooled spark plug, manufactured by Champion for Harley-Davidson, just something unusual.

Thank you,
MIKE
CLICK ON PHOTOS TO ENLARGE - Twice

[FL&WVMIKE]

Originally Posted by jw hash

Mot
first I like your ash tray, I have looked for one of them for years, on the nickle plated plug if yours has a 3 on the back it looks to be for a Lincoln, Marco & Mot I have never seen a long #3 core like the like the drawing shows all of the #3 cores I have seen are short like the later 3X. even the #3 later replacement cores are the short ones I not saying they are not out there just that I have never seen one, I to have a lot of NOS #3`s and 3X plugs & cores I`m just not that good yet on putting pictures on here,

jw hash .....................
I believe the longer FORD script core is for the "T" Model Ford. I have included a photo of a complete "T" plug along side of the "A" style.
MIKE

CLICK ON PHOTO TO ENLARGE - Twice

[Fred]

Originally Posted by FL&WVMIKE

jw hash .....................
I believe the longer FORD script core is for the "T" Model Ford. I have included a photo of a complete "T" plug along side of the "A" style.
MIKE

CLICK ON PHOTO TO ENLARGE - Twice

Once Again, That is NOT an "A" style plug, or even close to it...

[FL&WVMIKE]

Originally Posted by Fred

Once Again, That is NOT an "A" style plug, or even close to it...

FRED ...................
You keep making absolute statements, with no documentation. Please use your expertise and tell us what that Ford script plug is for.
It has the Ford script and it fits the "A" & "B" heads. It looks to be close to the "A" style to me.
MIKE

[Fred]

Originally Posted by FL&WVMIKE

FRED ...................
You keep making absolute statements, with no documentation. Please use your expertise and tell us what that Ford script plug is for.
It has the Ford script and it fits the "A" & "B" heads. It looks to be close to the "A" style to me.
MIKE

I dont know what its for, in the middle 30s I would guess.. And there you go AGAIN, "IT FITS" & so do 100 other brand plugs.. Looks close ?? you must have bad eyes look again.. P.S. Have you read ANY of the above posts & some with pictures ??..

[Fred]

Originally Posted by FL&WVMIKE

FRED ...................
I don't know where you get any of your information. Especially, where, you stated that I think they are correct, just because they fit. ???????
Please state your sorce of information in any future posts.
Thank you,
MIKE

Your Quote "THEY FIT" See your last post !! ??..

[d.j. moordigian]

Now,.....With out starting a war. Mike, I'm with Fred on your last photo post, it's
not an A plug(plug on the left). Compare your plug to Marco's engineering print.

[FL&WVMIKE]

Fred, d. j. .......................
I am not saying that it is an "A" plug. Read again.... "It has the Ford script and fits the "A" & "B" heads".
What in the world is it ???????
MIKE