Combining MARC, MAFFI & MAFCA

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by RockHillWill

I have never personally encountered a snub to any sort of person with an interest in 'looking' at a Model A at either of the National Club events. Neither club overlooks the advantage of inviting a 'newby' to look around.

As I recall, this kinda happened at the Dallas meet when there were local hobbyists who were browsing around the parking lot and had come to check out the swap meet that was across the road. I personally witnessed a host official turn several different groups away that did not have a meet badge. There was a little "ill feelings" by the ones being (somewhat rudely) turned away. I am not saying I disagree or condone the actions, ...merely saying it did happen.



Marco you are entitled to your opinion as to my comments but please do explain to myself and others how the parking lot did have quite a few MAFCA members who showed up that purposely did not register, ...and more to the point, ....how is it that as strong as the Model-A culture is in Southern California why were there not more MAFCA members in attendance at that meet?

And in all fairness, I have sat in the same room with MARC committee members who have openly used the comment MAFIA club (referring to MAFCA), so there is definitely 'haters' on both sides of the fence.

.

[ericr]

I'd like to see someone come up with a rough breakdown of which club's members are located where. Maybe geography has something to do with it----the United States is a pretty big country.

[Gary Karr]

Marco, to what you said above, I would also add economic issues and also the age issue. As co-chair of the 2011 San Diego MARC Meet, I have a little knowledge on what we went through to put on the met on the west coast. We formed the Pacific A's Region to put on the meet as none of the MARC regions in So Cal wanted to take on the meet alone. We spent many hours visiting both MARC and MAFCA regions in and around Southern California to promote the Meet. We stressed that it was a National Model A Meet right in their own back yard and all of the fun and activities they would experience. The next possible year that a National Meet of either Club could possibly be in California would have been 2016, five years later. I guess that still didn't make much of a difference. Attendance was low, especially from southern California. I wonder if we had hosted a MAFCA Meet, if the attendance would have been higher. Marco might have a point, that Clubs would have pushed their membership to the Meet. Good point. I think back on the 1990 MAFCA Meet in San Diego, at the same host hotel we used in 2011. There were tons of club banners displayed from balcony railings on the high rise. It was quite a site. That is what I had envisioned would be the case at the 2011 MARC Meet. Sadly, it was not.

[Gary Karr]

Brent, to add what you mentioned above about the Dallas Joint Meet, Dave Lopes and I were walking around the parking lot of the host hotel in the evening. It was still light out. We were looking over an E-28 Tudor parked curbside. One of the local meet officials chassed us away and told us we couldn't look at that car! He kept say "just move on." Wow!! Don't get me wrong, I had a ball at that meet and congratulate the committee that worked their buts off to put it together.

[ctvpa]

Well when I started this, I thought it would be interesting. It is. Thank you all for information, ideas and comments.
One PM told me "One is California based, The other is central mid west based". So I guess I will start one that accepts Eastern U.S.
My personal opinion - Both clubs should put it to a vote. Some club leadership is getting like Washington, they forgot that they are supposed to be representing the best for the membership. I see more people leaving the national Clubs over bickering and inside political dealings.
I truly thank those that give their time, money and effort to put on events. I've been there, it's a thankless job.
Even though I am a member of both, I made that ultimate error, that crime of crimes, worse than murder; I was weak, I am only human, and I suffered the slings and arrows of my punishment. Yes my friends, I am the one, you probably heard the story at club meetings, in total disbelief. I am the one who, on a hot day, wore the hat with the wrong logo. You cannot believe the comments. It was worse than when I cheered the Red Sox at Yankee stadium.
If both clubs are so dead set on dividing the membership, rather than promoting unity; perhaps now is the time for the development of the "Friends of the Model A Ford, United States Chapter"
Membership is declining. Cost is increasing. Members are aging. Duplication is non protective, and we could use the combined income to make a stronger base, allowing us to survive the future.
Time to make some decisions.
Thank you all.

[steve s]

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Originally Posted by ctvpa

... Cost is increasing. Members are aging. Duplication is non protective, and we could use the combined income to make a stronger base, allowing us to survive the future.
Time to make some decisions.
Thank you all.

Amen, brother!

I've read all the arguments and allegations about this huge difference between the organizations, and I just don't see it. All the folks I've met at the joint meets have been friendly, open, and focused on the cars. I assume that in any organization as rich in old curmudgeons as an old car club must be, there will be a few cranks, but, again, I just don't get it. I cannot discern any difference in philosophy or operation when I read Model A News vs. The Restorer. Can someone tell me SPECIFICALLY what these vast differences are, and then how those differences would justify establishing two complete separate bureaucracies and dividing the clientele?

Steve

[brum1]

cptv- I agree, put it to the membership for a vote, the Vast majority of the people I have met in the hobby all want ot have fun and do whats best for the hobby

[steve s]

I wonder, has there ever been any one run for MAFCA or MARC boards of directors on a platform of pursuing the possibility of merger? I don't recall ever seeing the M-word mentioned in the election ballot materials. I wonder if that is even conceivable, or do the current systems select out all but the true believers?

[WTSHNN]

(Why...oh why am I jumping in this...)

Ok.

There is a lot of misinformation that is being spread about in this thread about the clubs and it is at first comical; then sad; then enlightening to read.

I've been doing a behind the scenes project with Will the past couple months getting actual statistical data about MARC to then draw conclusions from. Using objective data to determine certain habits, preferences and likelihoods of a club.

I assure you I understand the importance of the human element in drawing conclusions about this hobby and those are taken into account in other ways; but conjecture, repetition of "urban legends" and just plain ignorance is more of a hazard to the hobby and the club of a hobby than having rival clubs.

All the amateur sociologists out there who actually care about this issue and aren't just throwing their unsolicited opinion out there to put another point on their post count under their username...read these two books.



Both were published in 2000 and are still extremely relevant today as they were back then. I've read both and actually "studied" one of them and the same cries being sounded in this thread are in these books...for bowling clubs...church affiliation...stamp collecting...museums etc.

Anytime you have an organization that has leaders there will be detractors. Those who sit on the sidelines and heckle and say "you shoulda..." That's great, there should always be someone out there questioning the decisions made by others but this discussion has been had many times over on this board and in coffee shops and in parking lots and it just keeps coming back to the same point.

So, I say this;

Lead, follow, or get out of the way.

-Tim

[tbirdtbird]

What is shocking me the most about this thread is that people/onlookers what-have-you are being turned away. Maybe some of the club members on either side think they will live forever. We need new blood, like ANY club of anything.....

[glenn in camino]

Not to worry. Give it 20 more years when we all will be in our 80s or 90s and government will finally manage to tax antique cars to where you won't be able to afford one. Remember they're a toy for the middle class.

[Bruce,Upstate NY]

I have belonged to both A clubs for many years and met many wonderful people. Any one who denigrates "the other club" is being as immature as those who make fun of owners who can't afford a "show" car. I have participated in a number of national meets but find the costs of lodging and banquets have gotten beyond the means of many of us.

[Ken Ehrenhofer]

I joined MARC in 1962 and became a member of the Illinois Region MARC. A couple of years later I joined MAFCA and wished the west coast was not so far away.
Anyhow, I think I can add something to the reason why there are two clubs. William Hall was the man who started MARC and it seems he was quite a dictator type leader, He wanted his two sons to be on the Board of Directors and thought his family could run MARC for many years to come. There was a group of members in California who did not agree with his management style and were very unhappy with Bill Hall. They decided to break away and start there own club and MAFCA was born. I was good friends with Russ Gerrits and another early member of the Illinois Region and I have letters that speak of these issues with members of the California Club, Russ and the guys from the west coast were good friends and each expressed sorrow that they felt they must start a new club, The only issue I get from the typed letter was Bill Hall as the letters are obvious that both the Illinois Region and the west coast guys were unhappy this had to happen. It is a shame this happened because Bill Hall was gone by 1960 and there were now 2 clubs. It is my opinion that it has been healthy to have 2 clubs as it has been a friendly competition with each doing the best they can to become the better club. Although it has created a lot of friction with some members between the 2 clubs unfortunately. I have shared the written proof of these early problems in the club and I think all should know the truth instead of spreading misinformation.
Personally I am sorry to hear all the bad stories from members on the barn about local clubs. I have met life long friends and have enjoyed the hobby and both clubs since 1962. Today I went to a birthday party for a good Model A/T friend for his 90th Bday.
I cannot say enough good things about all the great people I have met in MARC/MAFCA and now of course MAFFI. I had a great time in Dallas and San Diego was over the top as one of the best meets I have ever attended. You guys who are not joining the Nationals (either) are missing the most fun ever......We toured the USS Midway and went to the San Diego Zoo and had great fun with the Model A's. I sure feel sorry for those of you who have not participated or have had a bad experience.....you are missing a lot.

[DougVieyra]

ctvpa : "I . . . wore the hat with the wrong (club) logo. You cannot believe the comments. It was worse than when I cheered the Red Sox at Yankee stadium."
____________________________________________
ctvpa _

Your post about wearing the 'wrong' cap, reminded me of something that I enjoy doing on occasion .

Before I attend a Model A Club meeting, I 'adjust' my '31 Ford Model A, with Chevy Hubcaps on my 18" Ford wheels, put Chevrolet logo step-plates on my running boards, put an adhesive-backed Chevrolet Radiator Emplem on top of my Ford logo.

I then wait to see what fun ensues !

Every one seems to throughly enjoy the light hearted jest - there are no sour grapes.

It should be easier to merging two seperate, but of similiar interests, Model A Clubs, to 'get along' in comradary and good fraturnal cheer.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by steve s

I wonder, has there ever been any one run for MAFCA or MARC boards of directors on a platform of pursuing the possibility of merger? I don't recall ever seeing the M-word mentioned in the election ballot materials. I wonder if that is even conceivable, or do the current systems select out all but the true believers?

Since the purpose of an officer is to maintain at the least, and grow a club at best, would want to run on the platform he/she wants to dissolve the club?

[jimalabam]

Re. Brent, your last comment. Being a member of MAFCA since 1984, and MARC for many years, SEE, IL vs CA egos still exist after all these years. I do believe the vast majority of members of both clubs would not oppose a merger. Example: Many local clubs are Jointly MARC and MAFCA. Continue those great restorations your shop produces. Jim Langley...

[RockHillWill]

Mike V. Your assessment on this issue is spot on my friend. P.S. I REALLY appreciate your behind the scene efforts, keep pounding.

Tim: I believe in your response as well and learning your background adds credence to your response. I am especially 'in line' with your comment about either lead, follow or get out of the way. My involvement with superspeedway racing makes that attitude abundantly clear. If one car can travel at 201 MPH and another car will only go 198 MPH, if they line up in line with each other they are capable of perhaps 204 MPH. Drivers, respectful of each others efforts will take turns leading and following to share the burden of air resistance vs overheating engines. This 'dance' is a joy to watch, knowing the efforts that both teams committed to the show and that each driver has an intent desire to do well not just for himself, but for all the folks that stand behind them and have invested their efforts to create success.

This is all done for the benefit of those watching, but nobody benefits from a caution flag caused by 'debris', especially if it is caused by someone that has put forth NO effort to put on the show.

P.S. I REALLY appreciate the efforts you are providing as well. I will have more info for you in the near future.

I have had many opportunities to get to know contributing members from both clubs and just don't see the animosity that has been discussed. I can understand the occurrence of an individual having a 'bad moment', as it occurs often throughout life, but to assign this as a club 'directive' is just ill advised.

I am also aware that members of both of the clubs Directors speak to each other, share advice , compare notes and offer assistance. Clearly there are differences of opinions on some approaches, but I have experienced no disrespectful encounters.

These are my personal viewpoints.

[steve s]

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

Since the purpose of an officer is to maintain at the least, and grow a club at best, would want to run on the platform he/she wants to dissolve the club?

Merging and roughly doubling the size is not exactly dissolving.

[Jeff/Illinois]

Steve I'm not sure it would double as a lot of folks belong to both now. Maybe see one club with about 14,000-15,000 members just a hunch. And then there would be the ones who dropped out completely because of change.

New magazine would be called " The Restorer MAN"-------------------in movie form-------- coming soon to a theatre near you---------- Arnold Schwarnegger as THE MAN battling the evil influence of Street Rodding Predators

[steve s]

Originally Posted by Jeff/Illinois

Steve I'm not sure it would double as a lot of folks belong to both now. Maybe see one club with about 14,000-15,000 members just a hunch. And then there would be the ones who dropped out completely because of change.
...

You're right, of course--silly oversight on my part, especially since I'm one of those who belongs to both.

But, as a member of both, I am still mystified about what exactly is so awful about either club that could possibly prevent anyone from maintaining their membership in a merged entity. The magazines are both very nice, but indistinguishable. We have agreement on judging standards and joint meeting protocols. Local clubs operate relatively independently. What else is there?