39 trans, is this normal in operation??

[Talkwrench]

Im a noob to all this early stuff so bare with me just want to see if this is "fairly normal" and if there is anything I can do to that would help these problems...
Ive been told the trans in my 35 pickup is a 39 box.. easy way to tell?.

OK. Is a bit of clutch shudder normal[ish] for these "oldies" . Can this be adjusted by the pedal?

Also it "snatches" quite bad when shifting out of first, if I dont get the revs right it fair flicks-snatches out of first , Second to third gear seems ok , however when the load it right usually if you back off - slowing it can jump out of second, doesnt all the time.

Its a bit sloppy through the shift, I kind of expect that after many many years it would be .

This may not be helped in the fact that its a pick up, I would guess the diff is 4;1 First gear is very short.

I put Penrite mild EP oil in it, its what was recommended on their site [Australia] Not supposed to hurt soft metals, Probably better after I put this oil in.
A mate who has a 47 Merc, Said his shudders a bit to and also has a vibration around 40-45 mph same as mine..

Any tricks I can try or do I live with it ??

Thanks !

[Mart]

I read nothing above that surprises me. All of the above are fixable, it just depends how bad it is and whether you think it is bad enough to have to tear it down.

The part that is more easily fixable is a sloppy shift, if you are referring to the gearstick having a lot of sideways movement in gear. This makes a sloppy shift when going fron 1st to 2nd.

There is a 1/4" pin to locate the gearstick. On my 33 I removed the trans top and gearstick, drilled the hole in the trans to 7.5mm, made a new pin from the part of the drill just above the flutes and carefully ground out the groove in the gearstick so it was a decent fit on the new pin.

This reduces the sideways slop and improved the shifting.

The 39 box has two detent screws in the shifter top. Remove the lid and see if it has learly or later type synchro gears. Fork for the later gears measures 3" across, earlier type is smaller. Groove (where the big fork fits) in late synchro is offset, earlier type is more central.

You can't adjust the pedal to get rid of judder. I had one that had terrible judder. The clutch linings were badly contaminated. Sometimes judder can be caused by bad engine and trans mounts. Are your anti-chatter rods in place? Are they tight?

Mart.

[Charlie ny]

TW,
What Mart said. Lots of wear everywhere.
Charlie ny

[Mac VP]

This link to our website will give you a rundown of all the variations of the early Ford V8 transmissions. It sure sounds like you have a fairly beat up trans there. I don't think a fliud change is going to correct any problems with it.

http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/f...sID_3speed.htm

[Talkwrench]

OOhhh ANti chatter rods ..what the ?? Someone have a pic of these, 'cos Ive not seen or heard of these?! I did put in new engine mounts but at the box I havent had a real good look, Plenty of oil there I know that ..haha..
Thanks for that run down Mart, From what I see I should be able to take off the top of the gearbox in the pick up and have a squiz in there, I'll get to that.. As you say the shifter is attached so I'll take a look at that pin setup.
Im sure I did read about the lever length that operates the ...cross shaft[?] from the pedal, Anyone tell me what the length should be?

I have one little trick I might try for the shudder, this may horrify some.. I learnt this from a Jackaroo [Trooper] Forum and it seems to work on my 4x4. Usually this is for a 4x4 so the sand helps. Find a sand hill put it in reverse and ride the clutch as it struggles to back up.. Guess it burns the clutch face a little or whatever but the shudder disapears.. Not totally of course I find after time it creeps back, but does help..

[Fe26]

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There is a guy that advertises on Ebay (plainjane) who makes new improved Indent Kits.

They improved my shifting in a big way, however they didn't cure the second gear jump. If your box is jumping intermittantly you may find the Indent kit works for you. Otherwise you've just joined the Second Gear Club, entry is free, but leaving can be expensive.

[Mart]

Your block should have two 7/16" holes, running horizontally fore and aft low down on the sides of the bellhousing. You should have solid rods that bolt through these and run back to the x-member. On the front legs of the x-member top rail, there are two countersunk locations. These points are where the anti-chatter rods locate.

Type "1933 ford anti chatter rods" into google images and you will see some pics.

I don't know if there is a set length for the clutch release push rod, you should adjust the length to achieve some free play at the pedal - don't know the correct setting, but somewhere around an inch should be ok until you find the correct figure.

Mart.

[Matt in Alameda]

The anti-chatter rods are there to keep the motor from moving forward and driving the fan into the radiator. With the rear buggy spring there is a front to rear flex.....the anti chatter rods are very important to the car's design, but have little to nothing to do with the workings of the clutch....Matt in Alameda

[Mark Slight]

Anti-chatter rods photo.

May not be the problem, here is the photo anyway for ID of what they look like.

Mark

[Talkwrench]

Im going to have to look into those rods not on mine gal ?/.. Aslo I was about to fit a thermo fan and of course space is tight and I dont want to drive the motor / alt into the fan !!
Gotta love learnin'...

[Talkwrench]

Can't see where those rods go on my truck??
I adjusted the clutch, added an extra foam pad (seal)under the floorboard so the pedal came further down , adjusted from there. Pedal takes up sooner and is an improvement, shudder is not so bad gear change slightly better. Haven't tried my reverse trick as yet..

[PeteVS]

Originally Posted by Matt in Alameda

.....the anti chatter rods are very important to the car's design, but have little to nothing to do with the workings of the clutch....

My understanding is that with the torque tube system, when you start going forward, the force that moves the car comes from the rear wheels, and up thru the torque tube and pushes forward on the transmission and engine. The force goes from the engine and transmission to the frame thru the motor mounts which have rubber components. This causes a slight movement of the motor forwards or backwards. One trouble that arises is that the clutch pedal (and driver's leg, etc) are all on the frame, so there's some movement between the clutch pedal shaft and the clutch release arm shaft. This causes a slight change in the amount of engagement of the clutch right when you want it to be controlled entirely by your foot. So, if you bring the clutch just to the point of engagement, the car starts to move, the engine is moved slightly forward causing a slight decrease in engagement which allows the engine to move backwards a bit causing a slight increase in engagement, etc, etc. This is one cause of "clutch chatter." The rods are intended to reduce or eliminate that fore and aft movement of the engine, decreasing or eliminating that chatter. IMHO!

If you look at some other cars, various ways of controlling chatter might be a hydraulic or cable system of activating the clutch or torsional methods. My Ch---- has a bar about a foot long that has a spherical connection at each end. One connection is on the frame, the other on the engine block. There's a bar welded right at the end by the frame that's connected to the pedal and another at the engine end that's connected to the throwout bearing. Movement of the engine for or aft or twisting has minimal effect on clutch engagement. Also, the rear axles have trailing arms which carry the driving and braking forces directly into the frame so there are no fore and aft forces on the engine/trans.

[Mart]

PeteVS sums it up well, the antichatter rods hold the engine and frame during the critical phase of clutch release and engagement.

Mart.

[danliveshere]

TALKWRENCH THE UNIJOINT CAN CAUSE "CLUTCH SHUDDER " TOO IF IT'S BADLY WORN. TROUBLE IS YOU CANNOT SEE IT EASILY UNLESS YOU UNBOLT THE 2 HALVES BEHIND THE TRANSMISSION AND EITHER MOVE THE REAR BACK OR THE TRANS/ ENGINE FORWARD. YOU NEED TO SEARCH THE FORUMS HERE ABOUT THE BEST GREASE TO USE. WHEN WAS YOUR DRIVELINE LAST OVERHAULED? bUT DON'T FORGET TO DO THE UNI IF YOU HAVE TO REMOVE THE TRANSMISSION.

[V8COOPMAN]

[QUOTE=Talkwrench;600732]Can't see where those rods go on my truck??
QUOTE]

Here's a pic of the RODS in place. DD

[Talkwrench]

Thanks heaps guys.. Pete good work, understood..! Dan Who knows? Afraid someone was going to say that.. More about having to pull gearboxes , rear end out all that stuff ..aghhh! I dont think its at that stage, however it aint "bright and shiny" under there.. Coop thanks for the pic, that gives me a much better idea of what to look for .. Must say I cant rememeber seeing those loop tabs on the bellhousing area ?? Well back under tonight for a look..
Thanks to Mac as well , I read through that info, great stuff..

[RKS.PA]

Talk, I had all those symptoms in my '39. Had my engine out at the time redoing front and rear main seals, so pulling the trans was easy. Sent it off to Charlie NY and as he said above, lots of wear etc.

When I got it back in about a week and put everything back in the car, I couldn't believe the difference in shifting. No more "double clutching" or "shuddering" while riding the clutch.

I know your not in the US, so shipping your trans to a rebuildier here may not be an option, but it was the "cure" for me and I doubt I'll have to fuss with it again as long as I own the car.

Dick.

[Talkwrench]

Great when you get new gear Dick.. Checked underneath and I can see where the rods go but of course I don't have them.. In fact the previous owner has put wooden blocks over where they would mount to the frame to support the floor plan.. Ahh gotta love this stuff. Not critical tho'