Going to look at a rebuilt engine

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by Art Newland

My oil pumps differ from one another. Are they interchangeable?

Yes, as long as they have the spring to support them. Some earlier pumps had the spring attached to the oil pan, then later pumps had the spring mounted to the pump.

[Art Newland]

Ok I'll take a look at them. They both clickity-clack pretty good. Bushings on both have very slight side play.

[Art Newland]

I dis-assembled the "B" oil pump, it actually came with the engine. The gears were pretty worn. The installed bushings seem to be every bit as good as the new ones, so I won't bother installing them. Old Ford ones are probably better than the reproductions anyway. When first dropped into the housing there was a hard spot while spinning the shaft. I took them back out, looked them over and put them back in. Wouldn't turn at all. Took them out again, and they turned fine... "what the?" I'd read of needing to take some sandpaper to the gears on the repro stuff, but before I did, I tried a few things. I flipped the idler gear over and also tried "clocking" the gears at different points. By simply engaging the gears at different points I could find a happy place where things turned smoothly. I removed the screen, it looks fine, the spring looks great too.

[H. L. Chauvin]

FWIW: Humble Opinion from Past Experience:

In mentioning:

1. "When first dropped into the housing there was a hard spot while spinning the shaft."

2. Next, "Wouldn't turn at all."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A. Please remember that the oil pump rotates constantly at engine idle speed and/or at engine full speed ............... as opposed to a very slow turning starter which has maybe one millionth RPMs as that of the RPM's on an oil pump.

B. In the late 1950's I re-installed a used and quite worn "B" oil pump in a near "perfect" Model B engine.

C. After about 200 miles, this oil used pump broke mid-way up the very brittle cast iron round column which is located around the steel shaft.

D. Damage ?????: Number One (1) connecting rod started "clicking" and not long afterwards, it sounded as loud as the bass drum that the bass drum player was playing in the last verses of the famous final song ........... "Nearer My God To Thee" .................. while the Titanic was slowly sinking.

E. Barely made it home, but appears the moral of this story is not much different from other Model A mechanical failures:

"Cheep, Cheep, Cheep" Model A owners will always keep Model A engine re-builders in business."

F. For relaxing peace while driving far from home, $65.00 or so for new oil pump gears may sound "cheep, cheep, cheep" today, "if" they fail after a few hundred or thousand miles ....... but, just one (1) opinion ........ anyone ever notice that it is always the"Cheep, cheep, cheep" Model A decisions on this Forum that we hear of so often ............ either "before" or "after" said decision.

[Art Newland]

Not sure what you are suggesting? I did put in new gears...

[C26Pinelake]

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Originally Posted by H. L. Chauvin

FWIW: Humble Opinion from Past Experience:

In mentioning:

1. "When first dropped into the housing there was a hard spot while spinning the shaft."

2. Next, "Wouldn't turn at all."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A. Please remember that the oil pump rotates constantly at engine idle speed and/or at engine full speed ............... as opposed to a very slow turning starter which has maybe one millionth RPMs as that of the RPM's on an oil pump.

B. In the late 1950's I re-installed a used and quite worn "B" oil pump in a near "perfect" Model B engine.

C. After about 200 miles, this oil used pump broke mid-way up the very brittle cast iron round column which is located around the steel shaft.

D. Damage ?????: Number One (1) connecting rod started "clicking" and not long afterwards, it sounded as loud as the bass drum that the bass drum player was playing in the last verses of the famous final song ........... "Nearer My God To Thee" .................. while the Titanic was slowly sinking.

E. Barely made it home, but appears the moral of this story is not much different from other Model A mechanical failures:

"Cheep, Cheep, Cheep" Model A owners will always keep Model A engine re-builders in business."

F. For relaxing peace while driving far from home, $65.00 or so for new oil pump gears may sound "cheep, cheep, cheep" today, "if" they fail after a few hundred or thousand miles ....... but, just one (1) opinion ........ anyone ever notice that it is always the"Cheep, cheep, cheep" Model A decisions on this Forum that we hear of so often ............ either "before" or "after" said decision.

I totally agree with you Henry. Model A guys are forever looking for the 10 cent solution for a one dollar problem! My dad always said pay me now or pay me later ! The majority of Model A guys are the cheapest guys n the whole world. Wayne Wayne

[1955cj5]

I've rebuilt two oil pumps, just as Art did, and they work fine.

I'm not sure a "new" pump would be more reliable.

New pumps for old jeeps are notorious for failure

I suppose a housing crack or breakage could happen to any pump.

Not sure what H.L. is trying to say either....

[Art Newland]

Time to resurrect this thread and take a better look at my extra engine.
I bought this engine because it's current engine wasn't running very well. After some tinkering and lots of driving, it ran better and better so engine number 2 was put on hold. Even though my car runs ok at this time, it is certainly tired with compression of 45-50-50-50. I need more power to keep up with Dick's Tudor while climbing hills.
The bottom end of engine #2 looks great, but I do intend on pulling all the pistons, the crank and cam and taking a very good look.

[Art Newland]

A couple of concerns I have with it the the gouges in the deck of the block and the rust pitting in a couple of the cylinder walls. As long as some sealer would work on the head gasket, the slight pitting in the bores probably wouldn't make too much difference.

[Art Newland]

I'm thinking if the block deck was to be milled to clean up the gouging the studs would need to come out. So if I couldn't get the studs out, I'd try it as-is with lots of copper spray sealer! Low and behold with a little PB Blaster I was able to get them all out... still can't really believe it.

[Art Newland]

I've rebuilt several engines over the years, but always relied on a machinist to decide what was needed. Don't think I ever tinkered on an engine that was already over-bored. I'm trying to decide what size piston is already in it. Using a telescoping gauge in the bore, on top of the piston, I measure 3.950 inches. If standard is supposed to be 3.875, then that sounds like .070 over?? Or am I missing something?

[CarlG]

3.950 - 3.875 = .075

(unless my math is wrong)

[Art Newland]

Originally Posted by CarlG

3.950 - 3.875 = .075

(unless my math is wrong)

The piston needs 2-4 thou of clearance, +- my accuracy of measuring?
It just seems weird for it to be a .070 instead of 20, 40, 60, etc? Maybe it's not that unusual?

I did a cylinder taper measurement also, looks like about .005, which sounds a little excessive.

[Kurt in NJ]

The engine I bored for my brother had .045 taper, was used in irrigation pump, got new rings every winter, .005 is ok , .010 is getting near normal limits, several engines I did at .012 never had problems, even in cross country driving

the "rust" in the walls doesn't look to be much of a problem to worry about, I have seen much worse damage be not a problem

the block deck looks to of had a very coarse dirty file run across it, that I would put a straight edge on to see how flat the deck is, some people don't seem to mind changing headgaskets every so often though, and expect problems

[Art Newland]

Thanks Kurt, great info.

[37Benny]

Originally Posted by Chuck Sea/Tac

I know of twenty or thirty engines Dave did the babbit on. So I'm pretty sure it's set up right, bearing wise. How ever, building the engine, obviously another story.

Some of my trusted sources also talk about Dave and the quality of his work. Benny

[Art Newland]

Originally Posted by 37Benny

Some of my trusted sources also talk about Dave and the quality of his work. Benny

Good to hear Benny, Thanks.