B29

[40 FourDrDlx]

Almost coincided with Boeings' 100th anniversary 7/15/16.

[Alaska Jim]

A truly fantastic Airplane, I have always wanted to ride in one ,or at least see one in person, but never had the chance. as a former crew chief on B-52-G models '70-'74 I can say I am fascinated with these planes.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by ford38v8

I have two noobie questions....
First, I thought all such restorations had a tail number with a prefix X ?

Second, I thought protocol on engine starting sequence was to rotate port~starboard, rather than both on one wing then the other wing?

Alan.....The "469972" that you see on the vertical stabilizer is what is commonly referred to as the BuNo, or "bureau number" on a US military aircraft. It represents part of the aircraft's serial number. In this case, the "4" in the first place represents the year 1944, the year this particular aircraft's identity and birth certificate came into existence by the powers that be in a Gov Procurement Office. Most aircraft of the WWII era used this numbering system where the year (1944 in this case) was shortened to only the LAST digit (4). This particular aircraft's full serial number is 44-69972 as shown in FAA records. Now, to possibly confuse matters a little more, any PRIVATELY-OWNED aircraft registered and flown in the US is required to have an "N" number. The "N" number on this aircraft is N69972. Many owners request "special" "N" numbers from the FAA, which obviously the FAA accommodated for in this case. This particular aircraft (and many restorations like this one) falls into a category that is different than a "standard category" aircraft that originally would have gone through a lengthy, full "certification" process. These restored military types of aircraft usually fall into an "eXperimental", or "Limited" category. These aircraft still require a placard affixed to each entry stating EXPERIMENTAL or LIMITED status for un-aware mortals that need "legal" warning. Such an aircraft could never be used in a "normal/everyday", airline-like, paying-passenger role. In older times, these EXPERIMENTALS and LIMITEDS had "N" numbers that started with "NX", or "NL". As said above, this aircraft's "N" number is currently registered as N69972. "N" numbers are similar to what we know as a license plate number on a car.......it's a "registration" number. "N" numbers are only required to be AT LEAST 3" in height. And they are only required to be displayed once on each side of the rear portion of the fuselage.

Usual start sequence on most four-engine aircraft is #3, #4, #2 and #1. DD

[ford38v8]

Coop, Thank you for the detailed explanation! Which brings up another point... I remember some time back the Confederate Air Force was offering rides on a B17 for a fixed "donation" fee. Was that a breach of rules for the Limited status, or is it still OK? (Yes, I know, the CAF had to change it's name.)

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by ford38v8

Coop, Thank you for the detailed explanation! Which brings up another point... I remember some time back the Confederate Air Force was offering rides on a B17 for a fixed "donation" fee. Was that a breach of rules for the Limited status, or is it still OK? (Yes, I know, the CAF had to change it's name.)

Alan........Note where I said "normal/everyday" paying-passenger. Your example is exactly why I addressed it as "normal". Many of these "flying museums" have implemented these "donation ride" programs with the blessings of the FAA so far. I hate to think what the FAA (my former employer) may do to this program the first time there's a bad accident, Heaven forbid! Many of these organizations have found this to be a wonderful way of producing much-needed revenue to operate and maintain these wonderful, yet expensive old airplanes. Plus, it allows most everyone the opportunity to participate in an otherwise un-likely experience. I guess it's a good thing that the CAF changed it's name back in 2001. Otherwise, they would have been scrambling last year when that SHubject hit the fan. DD

[TonyM]

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Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN

Alan.....The "469972" that you see on the vertical stabilizer is what is commonly referred to as the BuNo, or "bureau number" on a US military aircraft. It represents part of the aircraft's serial number. In this case, the "4" in the first place represents the year 1944, the year this particular aircraft's identity and birth certificate came into existence by the powers that be in a Gov Procurement Office. Most aircraft of the WWII era used this numbering system where the year (1944 in this case) was shortened to only the LAST digit (4). This particular aircraft's full serial number is 44-69972 as shown in FAA records. Now, to possibly confuse matters a little more, any PRIVATELY-OWNED aircraft registered and flown in the US is required to have an "N" number. The "N" number on this aircraft is N69972. Many owners request "special" "N" numbers from the FAA, which obviously the FAA accommodated for in this case. This particular aircraft (and many restorations like this one) falls into a category that is different than a "standard category" aircraft that originally would have gone through a lengthy, full "certification" process. These restored military types of aircraft usually fall into an "eXperimental", or "Limited" category. These aircraft still require a placard affixed to each entry stating EXPERIMENTAL or LIMITED status for un-aware mortals that need "legal" warning. Such an aircraft could never be used in a "normal/everyday", airline-like, paying-passenger role. In older times, these EXPERIMENTALS and LIMITEDS had "N" numbers that started with "NX", or "NL". As said above, this aircraft's "N" number is currently registered as N69972. "N" numbers are similar to what we know as a license plate number on a car.......it's a "registration" number. "N" numbers are only required to be AT LEAST 3" in height. And they are only required to be displayed once on each side of the rear portion of the fuselage.

Usual start sequence on most four-engine aircraft is #3, #4, #2 and #1. DD

I was in the CAF for many years and we gave rides in the B-29, B-17, C-47 all the time. The C-47 I was a crew on never was designated experimental and I am thinking the other multi engine ac we operated were not either. If they were, then we could not give paying customers rides. And we gave paying rides often. The only aircraft I crewed that was experimental was the JU-52. We could not give rides on that one.


Yeah Coop, I just checked the regs and they were Limited but not experimental. We flew folks all the time. I stand corrected.

[TonyM]

Coop, I stand corrected. The ac we were operating were in the limited category.

But we flew paying customers all the time. TonyM.

[PeterC]

Originally Posted by flatjack9

The other B-29, "Fifi", will be in Oshkosh for the EAA show, the last week in July.

I had the pleasure to take a ride in FiFi in the mid 80's out of Harlingen TX - at the then Confederate Air facility- It was a memorable experience- particularly remember the engine control station montoring a sea of gauges and crawling thru the fuselage tube to the rear - was like being in an endless MRI machine.

It was a big beautiful lumbering aircraft until it got to cruise

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by TonyM

Coop, I stand corrected. The ac we were operating were in the limited category.

But we flew paying customers all the time. TonyM.

Tony.......I hear ya. As you know, everybody is "selling" rides in these things today. Exactly how, I'm not sure because FAR 91.315 is pretty clear on this....link below!

http://www.faa-aircraft-certificatio...mitations.html

I can only assume that these "payments" can somehow be considered a donation, or possibly even a one-time "membership fee" in the respective organization, which I believe 91.315 would allow carrying "members" without a problem. Ya still have to have "LIMITED" placards plastered in prime locations around the aircraft according to FAR 45.23. DD

[rotorwrench]

I'm sure it could be in a sharing catagory or donation It takes deep pockets just to fill a B-29 up. FiFi sat idle for a long time just waiting on a couple of engine rebuilds. The parts are getting to be unobtanium rather rapidly. They have been using spare parts from much later Douglas AD1 Skyraiders and other R3350 powered aircraft used in the Vietnam era just to keep them running. I'm relatively certain it can cost as much as a small airplane just to overhaul one of those old engines let alone all four of them.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

I'm sure it could be in a sharing catagory or donation It takes deep pockets just to fill a B-29 up. FiFi sat idle for a long time just waiting on a couple of engine rebuilds.

I've been around FiFi several times over the years, but I remember specifically at Oshkosh in 1981, at the bottom of the stairs that people were climbing for their $2 walk-thru of the airplane, the CAF had a big poster stating that FiFi (BACK THEN) cost $203 a minute to operate. "FLYING" Magazine reported that FiFi's new engines cost right at 100K EACH. DD

[Bob Greenwall]

There are still some WW2 hangars around here in Nebr. with an added cutout in the middle of the doors to fit the 29s. They were built for 17s and 24s. What an era that was! A proud moment for all you Kansas volunteers. I have a bottle of tin foil strands ("window") retrieved from the odd corner of the SAC museum's B-29...evidently still used to disrupt radar in the Korean War.