New member, saying hello...

[TRP]

Hello Ford Barn members,

I recently joined the site and figured I would say hello. My name is Ted. I live in California (in the San Francisco / San Jose bay area.) I've been a car guy since I was 16. I've spent most of my wrenching hours under aircooed VWs. My most recent project is a 1957 Speedster replica. I rebuilt all of the mechanicals from front to back.

I joined because I have an interest in Model A Fords. I have a unique opportunity to pick up a 1929 Tudor garage find. Was a daily driver in the 70s. Hasnt moved in 40 years. Trying to understand what Im getting into before I pull the car out of its barn.

Thank you,
Ted

[Domino]

Wow - "capita dia", seize the day, on the barn find If its priced right. You can always sell them but finding deals not so much. Folks here and on "ahooga" will be glad to assityiou.

[TRP]

Hello Domino,

I'm working with the owner on the price. If it were closer to my home it would be easier to set the price and drag 'er home. The family has absolutely no interest in the car. They just want it out of their barn to clean up the properly. I want to offer a fair price but have no idea what to offer. The prices for non running cars seem to be all over the place. It seems like the more surface rust the higher the price.

This car looks to be original (dark blue & black) or possibly an older garage restoration. I don't see any indication of a lighter blue color around the windows or any pinstripes. The firewall is a lighter color than the rest of the car. From what I can tell from the photos, its missing some odds and ends (door handle, mirrors, right rear bumper, a few hubcaps, tail light). Partially taken apart dash pod & ignition system (possibly troubleshooting a points / ignition issue before the owner gave up?) From the photos - the only noticeable damage to the body is a slight kink in the right rear fender, some light bubbling of the paint under the radiator, and some flaking paint/surface rust to the right of the rear window along that body seam in the back.

To get it out of the barn and up on a trailer is going to require some effort. It's kind of packed in with 40 years of family treasures around it. 4 flat tires. Who knows if the brakes / hubs are frozen. It comes with an extra motor, trans, pedal assembly so I'll need to bring a cherry picker I suppose.

Is there a suggested list of tools to bring when dragging an old A Model out of a barn?

Floor jack
Portable air compressor
Cherry Picker
4 new tubes?

I would rent a flat bed trailer and pull it home 600 miles on the trailer.

Anyway - I'm considering the opportunity... I just want to know what I'm getting into before I burn an entire weekend getting this thing home from halfway across the state.

Thanks for any advice you may have to offer.

Ted

[mhsprecher]

There are others who are better able to comment, but from the sounds of it, go low. Good running examples go for around $10k often, so I would guess half that for this one, with unknown motor condition, disassembled dash, etc. the condition of the body and interior would be key. Photos help assess, too. Tudors are the most common body style, which affects price, too.

Model A's are a Tom of fun, so I doubt you will regret it.

[TRP]

Hello Preacher,

I thought about posting photos but I was afraid someone would recognize the car and swoop in and grab it out from under me. As unlikely as that seems, if that happens, I guess it wasn't meant for me to own this car.

I am waiting to hear back if the owner has any paperwork on the car. I found a thread this sort of thing here on the site. I will be reviewing that now.

Please see images below.

[Kevin in NJ]

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Value is an interesting animal.

First off it is a common tudor. You can find them 'restored' for $8000 to $15000. By restored they would have nice paint, interior. Mechanicals are always questionable unless there is good documentation that the parts were done properly.

Most people treat the A as some simple car and sort of throw them together. Because of the way the A was engineered by Ford it was capable of still getting around when substantially worn. This is why many will tell you the A was just a 45 MPH car.

What you need to understand is the A was a precision built car. If you show the factory engine prints to a rebuilder they will tell you you are building a race car engine.

When properly rebuilt the A had no problem going 60 MPH, all day long.

What you have there is a car that would likely run and move. Just add battery and some fluids. Brakes might be questionable (odds are real good) and might be fine under 40.

To make the car a driving car you would expect to spend around $8000 on the engine and tranny. Throw in another $1000 on brakes and $1000 on springs and shocks. These are kind of mid range prices. So you are in close to $10k to fix up the car. Its final value is only going to be something maybe around 12k when done. So how much are you willing to pay?

It is a MUCH better value finding a car that has been done for $15k. They are out there if you look around.

Assuming the body is not some fixed over rusty POS, I am guessing the car would sell in the $3000 to $8000 on the current market (region of the country make a big difference on price).

It is your wallet, you can pay what you want. I would do some research, if you don't got lots of cash then your better value might be elsewhere.

[JOHN CT]

I see the crank is there. Did you try to spin the engine over? To see if it's stuck.
My opinion a barn find model a is worth 3-4 grand
Welcome to the model a word!

[Big hammer]

Hello welcome to the ford barn! Tires and tubes about 1k, motor about 5k, interior 4k now we are at the 10k running car! I would offer 2k and only go up to 2.5k To your list I would add come along's, rags and hand cleaners. The hand crank under the radiator can be removed and used on the wheel lug nuts. Good luck with your negotiating with their family's heirloom, that can be really tuff.

[fordwife]

My experience has been that these old A's hibernate very well if they and stored inside and kept dry. The biggest problem is that if if it was stored with gas in it the whole fuel system, gas tank to carburetor, will probably have to be cleaned out, and check engine, trans,and rear axle for possible water acumilation.

[TRP]

Hello Gang!

Kevin - Great info! Thank you. I completely understand about being upside down on a car when you're 'done'. I am just looking for a new project to tinker with. I'm not looking for something to just get and drive.

From my understanding this car is someplace between 'needs complete restoration' and just short of a 'parts car'. If this is a $3000.00 car in it's current state then I need to do some more soul searching. I was thinking 2k max. I don't want to pay more than it's worth but I also don't want to take advantage of the family.

Thank you for the info!
Ted

[JDupuis]

Welcome to the barn Ted.

[1955cj5]

If you want a project it looks like a great candidate! You will learn plenty...

Check both engine numbers to see if either matches the title. Number is stamped on the flat area above the water inlet. The inlet is the water elbow on the left side in front of the starter..

If it's titled in CA you may not need a vin inspection. I think it's really a serial number, not a modern vin for sure...

The vin is stamped on the Top of the frame about 6" behind the front body mounting bolt on the drivers side....under the body.....so if you need an inspection it can be done without completely removing the body but it is still a project..

My pickup needed everything, and still needs a few things. But it was and is a great learning experience and lots of advice/knowledge here on the Barn...

[1955cj5]

And for what it's worth I used a U-Haul carhauler trailer to bring mine home. They are heavy but tow and track really well. The Model A fits fine but take some extra tie-downs as the U-haul front wheel straps fit well enough but still looked like they needed a little backup..

I also wrapped the cab (pickup) and headlights with plastic shipping wrap to protect the glass...headlights too...

[Tom Wesenberg]

I can't see if it needs a top, but I can see it needs an interior. I wouldn't try to start the engine until you get it home and oil down the cylinders. You could try the hand crank to see if it's stuck, but don't force it, just let it soak with oil. It looks like it could clean up to be a good driver as is. Hopefully the tires will hold air long enough to get it on the trailer.


With the spare engine, etc. I'd say you will be paying between $2500 and $3500. If they want more than that, then I'd have to hear the engine run and check out the tranny and rear end.

[TRP]

Thank you all for the information. I will be coordinating with the son to fly out and have a look at the car. If I like what I see I will give him a deposit and figure out how to bring 'er home.

Thanks again,
Ted

[captndan]

Originally Posted by TRP

Thank you all for the information. I will be coordinating with the son to fly out and have a look at the car. If I like what I see I will give him a deposit and figure out how to bring 'er home.

Thanks again,
Ted

Now you're on the right track. Don't worry about all the other stuff right now. Take cash. If you like it buy it and look no further. A trailer and a winch, even just a come-along, and some tie down straps is all you need. Get her home then start asking the thousands of questions. Answers are here.

[Mike V. Florida]

Welcome!

[dean from bozeman]

Ted,

1. The condition of the sheet metal is all important in determining a price and the possibilities of a barn find (or any Model A). A body with little or no rust is a big plus. Straight fenders without bead (the outer edge) problems is also a big plus. If it is well rusted or held together with bondo, walk away.

2. The "extra" engine could be the one that is original to this car. See 1955cj5's comments above. That would mean that it needed work and was replaced. The one in the car could be original and that could mean that it was going to be replaced. Both could be "just" A engines and have no history with the car. A car's value is increased if it has the original engine.

3. Take 20 $100 bills and fan them out on the table. When people see money they can be more prone to say yes. (Bought a '34 Plymouth years ago with this technique. They wanted $400 but when they saw 3 $100's they jumped.) Once they grab the money get the car onto the nearest road. Put orange cones in front and back and get a trailer. Heard that it is officially yours once it is off the previous owner's property (Comments from other Fordbarners about this, please. Please correct me if I am wrong).

4. Don't be scared away by the estimates above. You could get the car home, make it roadworthy and just have fun. Then you could have fun with your kids, grandkids and/or your spouse. You could spend money and have a car that could take you on tours to destinations unknown. Whatever you do...have fun. Enjoy the car. Let others enjoy it with you. Be safe.

Happy Trails!
Dean

[Tom Wesenberg]

BTW, be sure to remove the hand crank so it doesn't fall out on the road somewhere.

Same goes for any other loose parts that might fall off.

[Mitch//pa]

2k, 3k,4K just buy the thing,,no brainer... u can always get ur money back plus, if you decide not to keep it..
And welcome to the forum

[Jason in TX]

Welcome to the Ford Barn! It's a great place for information.

Yeah. A hot rod guy would easily buy that for $4000-$5000 the way it's sitting.

I only say that because if you can get it for less, just do it. You'll get your money back if you hate it.

I hope that you fix it up stock first and enjoy driving the Model A for a while. They are neat cars and get tons of attention. The nationwide community of Model A enthusiasts is also a perk over a lot of other car clubs.

[Dick Carne]

These days, good running gears with most of the engine accessories are going for a minimum of $1,500, and up to $2,500 in some parts of the country from what I hear. Add to that what appears to be a good, solid body and fenders, and I think that you would be safe for anywhere in the $2,500 - $4,000 range. Beyond that, I am prone to agree that there are other considerations that should enter into play ... does the engine run, will the transmission shift smoothly, etc., etc. Regardless, it looks like an enjoyable project, and it appears that all of the "hard" parts to find are still intact. And as others have related, the tudor sedan is one of the more common body styles, so it should be relatively easy to find any missing parts. Good luck whatever you do. Should you decide to go forward, I don't think that you would be disappointed in the long run.

Dick

[denniskliesen]

This sounds just like the same situation I was in last year. I had a friend looking for leads to a Model A, and I specifically asked for a Tudor. I didn't care if Coupes, Roadsters, whatever are more popular or not. Yes there are Model A's that bring more money and or will have more demand, it's what you are going to be happy with. Tudors from my experience are the easiest to get parts for besides a coupe.

Yes, you mentioned you are waiting for the paper work. It's possible DMV has no record of it having been registered. That could be in your favor. I usually deal with AAA being a member as they are faster than DMV.

Like everyone has told you about how much for certain items, interior was priced to me from Lebaron Bonney for just under $2,500. IF you have done restorations like you said then you will have an idea of what can be involved with a car the condition yours is in. I plan on clearing out my garage, put up plastic from the ceiling and walls and paint in pieces, body off the frame, later fenders and running boards, when the time comes that I feel it's time to do it. Nothing is big on these cars nor is anything complicated. I'm also going to do my own upholstery as I have a good used industrial machine. Lots of ways to do the job if you are doing nearly all the work yourself. The prices going in from everyone out there are reasonable. If you go low and they get offended or turn you down, there's others out there to buy. Your bonus with this deal could be the spare engine. Check the fenders for repairs, welded up cracks etc. I got lucky with perfect fenders and no rust. And I'm having a lot of fun with my barn find fixer upper. I have even won a trophy with her. Oh and look for the date stamped on the front of the gas tank, might be upside down. It's usually where the bottom of the tank meets the firewall on the drivers side.

[1955cj5]

This is where to look for that firewall/fuel tank date Dennis mentioned. The car would probably have been assembled shortly after the tank was built.

This is the drivers side just above the steering column. It may or may not have been stamped.

[mike657894]

parts are pretty cheap. check compression. mine needed a head gasket. oil pan was full of sludge. every thing is pretty straight forward to work on. grease everything.

[KGBnut]

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You didn't say where you were located. It might be a good idea to connect with a local club. Sometimes guys will volunteer to go take a look at it with you.

Also, different states have different registration requirements. For some a bill of sale is enough, for others make damn sure that you have a valid, matching title.

Local help is a good thing.

Ken

[TRP]

Hey Gang,

Thanks for the warm welcome. I really appreciate all of the info. I don't want to offer too little and offend anyone. I will go with cash in hand and hope it works in my favor.

As of this morning things are going kind of slow because the older owner said that all of the sudden she 'doesn't want to deal with all of it'. I backed off and told the son to let me know when she comes around. Seems like patience will pay off in spades here.

I reached out to the president of the Silicon Valley chapter of the Model A club. No reply back. There are 4 or 5 A's that I see buzzing around the back roads around my house. I think I know where one of the guys live. I may swing by his place one afternoon and chat him up.

If it doesn't happen with this one it may happen with another.

[denniskliesen]

Originally Posted by 1955cj5

This is where to look for that firewall/fuel tank date Dennis mentioned. The car would probably have been assembled shortly after the tank was built.

This is the drivers side just above the steering column. It may or may not have been stamped.

Is that a fluke or what!! Same date as mine and upside down.

[1955cj5]

Neat! Struck by the same worker no doubt!!

[larrys40]

TRP,
Welcome to the Barn! I agree with the gang as posted above that it is probably a 2-4K car.. and as Jason said hot rod guys will give that in a heartbeat... Kevin and Dean highlighted the quality of the sheetmetal and I concur... if the fenders are rough and beads broken etc those are things to take note. They are fixable but stellar sheet metal is worth more than not. I don't mind giving a little more for stellar sheet metal.. the mechanicals ( hopefully it doesn't need an engine rebuild right off) can be fixed easier than doing body work.

Run your hands all over the fenders and body and get the "Feel" of it.. it will tell you a lot.
All the best to you and hope you get it!
Larry Shepard

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by denniskliesen

Is that a fluke or what!! Same date as mine and upside down.

A few years ago our club had three 1929 Tudors, mine and two others all with tank dates 2-23-29.

And, they were all assembled at the Twin Cities plant.

[Chippy Minton]

I can't help with the value but can confirm they're very straightforward to work on. A world away from the complications of an air cooled VW. Good luck.

[Synchro909]

To the OP, firstly, welcome to the barn.
Some of you have mentioned that the price of cars varies depending on the location within the US. Where are the cheaper places? Are they where bodies might have been rusted out by salt on the roads?
Questions by someone from outside the US and where salt is NEVER used - it doesn't get cold enough.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Many Model A never saw salt because back then they were smart enough to just plow and sand, and not use destructive salt. The problem is many of the states are high humidity and many Model A's were stored outside, under trees or in the woods.

[Cornishman]

My car was came from the USA but, as far as I know was only registered in California and Nevada. The metalwork is in excellent condition, something that would be impossible to find in any car of a similar age that had put up with the mild, damp, seaside salty conditions in my original location in Cornwall in South West England.

[captndan]

Enough of all this talk. Either go get the car now or send me a PM and I'll go get it. Yes all the way from Tennessee.

[31 Model A]

I can't help you with all the mechanical mumbo-jumbo, I'm just a driver, I'm many things but not a mechanic but I can welcome you to the Barn.

[TRP]

HA! I'll go get it soon. I'm waiting on the family to let me know what day works for them.

I'll report back when I have the car loaded up.

Thanks for all the great info.
Ted

[Brentwood Bob]

The Santa Clara club is a big one, is active, and should be able to help you. I would find out when the next monthly meeting was and go.
I belong to the Livermore club. You would be welcome there also.
Bob

[Big hammer]

Originally Posted by TRP

HA! I'll go get it soon. I'm waiting on the family to let me know what day works for them.

I'll report back when I have the car loaded up.

Thanks for all the great info.
Ted

Sounds like your a proud owner of a model A ! Take lots of pictures! Wishing I had :-(

[TRP]

Ha~ Not quite yet. We have to work out a few details before the deal is closed. The older widow is not real fond of meeting strangers. Her son and I need to fly 500 miles to meet and see the car and close out on the deal. I may drive out instead of flying out so that I don't have to make two trips.

For now I'm going to sit back and be patient while she gets used to the idea. Don't want to push too hard and have everything fall apart. She wants the car gone but doesn't want to deal with the hassle of selling it.

What I meant to convey was to not expect too much on this end until the car is loaded up and following me home.

I will take tons of photos. I can't wait to pry open the barn doors and let sunlight hit the car for the first time in many many years.

[Brentwood Bob]

One issue you might keep in mind is that the roof and the interior don't standup well to air flow on the back of an open trailer. Since we are all guessing on the condition of each, an ideal solution would be to use an enclosed trailer.
Short of that Roll up all the windows, frequently stop to chec on the condition of the car, always clip all 4 of the hood clips that hold the hood in position(I paid a price for not doing this), A tarp might avoid wind damage to a tender roof. Chock, and chain down the car using the front and rear axles, or wheels, And keep the speed down, picture your family riding in the vehicle during the trailer ride home. Newfound pride of ownership dulls the judgement.
My experience.
Bob

[dean from bozeman]

Brentwood Bob, good point.
e.g., Some years back I bought a '29 Leatherback (driver) and brought it home on an open trailer (That's all I had at the time). Along the way, the top split along the seam in back.

TRP, if you don't have an enclosed trailer try to borrow one. If you only have access to an open trailer take Tom's advice and check for and remove anything that might be or become loose along the way.
e.g., some years back I trailer A495 from Montana to Toledo Ohio (to Mark Welch), I forgot to take the open bail light switch off. It had no loom in it. Fortunately, the cover stay on even though it was not twisted closed.

[1955cj5]

This is what I did to keep the doors closed and protect the glass.....we kept the speed down to help preserve the 60 year old top ..... it survived....but i have since replaced it...That's shipping wrap with shipping tape over the top of it to hold it in place..

[Brentwood Bob]

Thanks for input from #43 and #44. Guess you will need to evaluate the car first before going any farther.
Bob

[Mike Peters]

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Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

2k, 3k,4K just buy the thing,,no brainer... u can always get ur money back plus, if you decide not to keep it..
And welcome to the forum

X2. I bought a 28 business coupe three years ago for 4k. Been in dry storage since 1955. Perfect body, no rust anywhere, but fenders had had some relations with garage doors in the past. Got original numbers matching engine running easily. Your tudor might be such a car as well. Just buy the damned thing.

[mshmodela]

Exceptionality fine Porsche rep. Ted.... Welcome to the Barn.

[TRP]

Hey Gang,

Thanks for the warm welcome. Unfortunately talks on purchasing this A have stalled out. The owners mother isn't motivated to sell it. She doesn't want it but she also doesn't want to get rid of it. Some people are like that I guess.

Thats okay. All is not lost. I have been watching a few other cars on line. I'm headed to look at a pretty solid looking driver next week. Looks to be a prett well maintained car. Owner is asking 12k. 1929 Tudor. Straight. Gaps look good. B head with 3 bolt waterpump. B/W overdrive. All Steel rust free. I will check back in if I like what i see. I figure that it might make more sense to start with a solid car before jumping head long into a long term project.

Thanks again for all the great info!
Ted

[TRP]

Originally Posted by mshmodela

Exceptionality fine Porsche rep. Ted.... Welcome to the Barn.

Thank you. It's a ton of fun. 2054cc stroker motor with a 5 spe3d. Runs like a scalded dog! I need the A to mellow me out a bit.

[jimalabam]

Welcome aboard...

[JDupuis]

Ted; Sorry you didn't get to rescue that first car. Maybe she'll have a change of heart soon and call you. Good Luck in persuing that next Model A. Jeff

[burner31]

Welcome
Born and bred in Redwood City myself
Escaped to a saner location (Oklahoma) years ago

Go for the Model A, I did and have not regretted of minute of it yet

[Charlie Stephens]

Ted,

You mentioned in post #3 bringing 4 new tubes. I think I would look around to borrow 4 rims with tires on them instead. Breaking down old tires in a barn sounds like a job I wouldn't like to tackle when I was busy trying to pick up a car. Rims will fit from 1928 through 1935.

Charlie Stephens

[TRP]

Originally Posted by Charlie Stephens

Ted,

You mentioned in post #3 bringing 4 new tubes. I think I would look around to borrow 4 rims with tires on them instead. Breaking down old tires in a barn sounds like a job I wouldn't like to tackle when I was busy trying to pick up a car. Rims will fit from 1928 through 1935.

Charlie Stephens

Hello Charlie,
That's good advice. I'll remember that if I go try and dig one out of a barn.

I'm looking at runners now. Maybe start with something in better shape.

What colors would you guess are on this car?

[Spokes]

A lot Of Good Advice Above. I Agree With Dean, If You Can Buy The A for A Fair Price Based On The Above Enjoy Your A.

[JDupuis]

I think the main body colour is dawn grey.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by TRP

Hello Charlie,
That's good advice. I'll remember that if I go try and dig one out of a barn.

I'm looking at runners now. Maybe start with something in better shape.

What colors would you guess are on this car?

Hey Ted,
YOU are having tooo much fun, IMO !

You story reminds me of 2001 or so, when I located the '30 A roadster that I bought to restore. Ok, up front...I'm maybe in the 'older' classification.

However, I guaranty you that I'm not in the class of old folks that you met and I met when we tried to buy a model A, eh !! The 'old lady from pasadena', acted exactly as you have described. However, she said that her husband died of cancer and that he had driven this (heap of rust) into her garage....'just before he died ' ! She also cited 'the top model A judge' in the area...who told her , at least 15K. I said sell it to him. In the end, I did buy the car for more than I wanted to pay.

Do you believe in fate ? I think that fate/luck helped rescue you and that you are now on the good path to making a happy (running/driving) choice !
Welcome aboard and Good luck

[jm29henry]

Good luck to you I like the way you think if it is meant to be it will work out !!! ,I believe that sometimes car find us I hope it all works out for you please keep us informed

[BoysToys1928A]

Hey TRP, Welcome to the BARN !!! I have read over this thread and may have missed this but it's worth repeating, If the talks with the owner restart, I would make sure there is a title that will transfer. My first 1928 Tudor didn't have one and the widow I bought it from said she couldn't find it. It is illegal to sell them and it is posted on here that no one can sell paper work like that. And many calls to the DMV get nothing but "Your car has to have a VIN number that fits into our data base" so with out a title you have a beautiful antique/Yard ornament... Just a thought to consider. Good luck I'm sure the widow's husband was a great man and in her eyes that car is part of him... Assure her his memory will live on through it by your careful hands. Again welcome.

Larry

[TRP]

Well... I did it. I purchased my first A. 1929 Tudor. Needs a little TLC but otherwise a solid foundation.







It is going to need a new top and the tank has a horrible repair to the steering column bracket. It looks to be seeping a bit. Other than that, it has a 'C' head and an ebrake style lever operated Borg Warner overdrive. I note this because historically I thought they had a T handle style system. Car runs strong. Stops well. I assumed the Overdrive was inoperable because he said he had never used it in the 6 years he owned the car. All windows work well. Safety glass. No noticeable signs of water leaks or oil leaks. The car has some unique directional signals. There are drum style with chrome bezels and orange arrows that light up when in use. The car also has a period correct looking water themperature gauge mounted on the column mounted turn signal lever bracket.

I didn't like the fact that the head studs were replaced with grade 8 bolts. I noticed that and the tank fix after we signed the deal. I'm a little disappointed in those two items.

I also noticed that the drivers door was about 1/2 or so lower than it should be at the handle side. Noticeable because the body line does not line up properly.

It has a Nevada Title and VIN. Should be easy to register in CA.

I will post more photos when it gets delivered.

What's done is done.

Thanks for letting me share!

Ted

[1930artdeco]

Gorgeous car!!!! If you want to change the bolts out check the pistons and valves while you are in their. The tank can be fixed by Vinin10usee (SP?).

Mike

[Railcarmover]

Volkswagens and A's go together..I just sold an Oval project to finance my 29 Sport Coupe..

[JDupuis]

Congrats Ted! You did it! Great looking car. Jeff