Paul Shinns block adventure

[daveymc29]

I am sorry this ever got to this site. It should have been taken care of face to face. Yes I do know you Paul, but just barely. I know the shop you shot the film in and know it is old and respected. Doesn't matter to us on the viewing end as all we see is what comes through to us. To me it came as a ha ha dig at Terry's endeavour, nothing else. To others perhaps it came off as a valuable bit of information. I appologize for having responded, should have minded my own business, but then I just couldn't let it slide as this type of comment has a way of totally stopping a business in its tracks and they may never recover from it. If I misjudged your point, I am sorry, and this will be my last comment on the subject.
Dave Mc Arthur

[4bangerbob]

seems the video has been reclassified on YouTube to private. Wonder why ?????

[JKY]

Originally Posted by 4bangerbob

seems the video has been reclassified on YouTube to private. Wonder why ?????

Paul wrote: OK, took the video down. The video where I am supporting Terry (that everyone seems to have missed) from June remains up.

[The Master Cylinder]

Originally Posted by P.S.

OK, took the video down. The video where I am supporting Terry (that everyone seems to have missed) from June remains up.

I just want to wash my hands of this whole experience. Anyone want to buy a couple Burtz block kits?

Paul, sorry to see you took the video down. I watched it a few times yesterday and was taking notes of what I should be watching for if I order one in the future. A lot of good info there.

I honestly think this thread should be removed also.

Keep up the good work on the videos.

[CWPASADENA]

Paul,

I do not know you and have never met you, but I have heard of your involvement in the Model A hobby and have heard you have produced a lot of videos with good information relating to our hobby. I did see your recent video and also posted a response.

I have completed several Burtz engines and am currently working on No. 7. I have found a few very minor issues but nothing that I could not easily rectified. I have conveyed my findings to Terry Burtz who passed them on to John Lampi and I do know the later produced blocks seem to have far fewer minor issues than some of the earlier ones. This is a very complicated item and especially having it manufactured in another country, I would expect to find a few things that need to be addressed.

As a Mechanical Engineer, machinist and custom engine builder, I do not recommend checking the concentricity of crankshaft ground surfaces in the manner that was shown in the video. I use "V" bocks and a surface plate which is the accepted method when dealing with such components. I think this is what got a lot of us all riled up. In my opinion, your video came off as the Burtz engine kit was something to be weary of and it may need a lot of expensive re-work before it would be usable.

Is the Burtz engine kit perfect? No, but it is pretty darn good and allows a new dimension to our hobby. Up to now, we were having to deal with components that were 90+ years old. We now have the option of not only being able to build an engine for our Model A's using new components but also components that are engineered to take advantage of modern engine design.

Is a Bertz engine necessary for all Model A's? No, actually, I do not have a Burtz engine in any of my 3 Model A's. The one I use for touring, has a "B" engine with Mitchell Transmission and Mitchell O.D. This car was restored about 14 years ago and the B engine has served me very well but if I was to restore the car today, I would definitely consider a Burtz engine. I also have a Fine Point '31 Roadster with an original engine and a Vickey that I use as an "Around the town car" and it also has an original engine that does everything I want it to do. However, for touring or if restoring a Model A today for long term ownership that will get a lot of usage, I would strongly recommend considering a Burtz Engine.

I just wish you would have first contacted Terry before you posted the video.

Again, this is just my opinion,

Chris Wickersham

[JRLampl]

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Hi Paul,

I am glad you took a few minutes to post a response to the reactions from your YouTube video.

As you may know, we honor our products and if a customer is dissatisfied for any reason, we don't hesitate to replace or refund the purchase. That is our policy. I was surprised that you would post your video without first contacting us and letting us know there is a problem.

This aside, one comment in your post that should be corrected. You said I am aware of 6 blocks that all have defective issues. To clarify, I am aware that your machinist said there are 6 blocks that are out of spec. We have not yet seen these blocks and until we do, we won't accept this determination from an outside source. If our examination proves that these blocks have an issue, we will stand by our guarantee. If we determine the machining is within tolerance, then we have something else to deal with. So, check your statement that I am "well aware..".

With regards to your block kit, I suggest that, rather than pay Willie to fix it, let me replace that or even refund it if you like. For reasons relating to quality assurance, I would like to see that block. Let me know.

I would like to point out for the sake of the readers here, that we have several builders across the USA who have collectively built MANY DOZENS of our blocks and we have had ZERO complaints regarding the machining quality. This is why I am curious to see these several blocks you are referring to.

Thanks,
John

[History]

I shouldn’t and I know it BUT,,,, I believe this can be settled if everyone can keep their egos in check. I say that knowing I have an ego myself and understand that egos like to WIN!! I don’t think Paul was trying cause problems for Mr Burtz or anyone here. I’ve watched lots of his videos and appreciate them, I also appreciate mr Burtz for making these blocks as we surely need them. We all make mistakes but as I told my father in law after realizing that I had pissed him off, I didn’t do it knowing I was doing the wrong thing or my real words to him, “I didn’t do it saying screw him”. Intent is the key and I don’t think Paul “intended” to cause problems for Mr Burtz. Could it have been handled better? Yes probably so. Is Paul right about everything??? Is Mr Burtz right about everything? Nobody here is always right with the exception of me. 😉

This doesn’t have to fall apart and enemies made that weren’t enemies yesterday.
I’m not usually the voice of reason, I’m usually the guy doing stupid stuff and not meaning to.

[shew01]

Well said. I don’t want to see this devolve into the Hatfields and McCoys. We definitely need the new block, and we definitely need informational videos. Nothing is perfect, and the hobby will be better off if we can move forward from here without any more escalation of grievances.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[P.S.]

Originally Posted by JRLampl

Hi Paul,

I am glad you took a few minutes to post a response to the reactions from your YouTube video.

As you may know, we honor our products and if a customer is dissatisfied for any reason, we don't hesitate to replace or refund the purchase. That is our policy. I was surprised that you would post your video without first contacting us and letting us know there is a problem.

This aside, one comment in your post that should be corrected. You said I am aware of 6 blocks that all have defective issues. To clarify, I am aware that your machinist said there are 6 blocks that are out of spec. We have not yet seen these blocks and until we do, we won't accept this determination from an outside source. If our examination proves that these blocks have an issue, we will stand by our guarantee. If we determine the machining is within tolerance, then we have something else to deal with. So, check your statement that I am "well aware..".

With regards to your block kit, I suggest that, rather than pay Willie to fix it, let me replace that or even refund it if you like. For reasons relating to quality assurance, I would like to see that block. Let me know.

I would like to point out for the sake of the readers here, that we have several builders across the USA who have collectively built MANY DOZENS of our blocks and we have had ZERO complaints regarding the machining quality. This is why I am curious to see these several blocks you are referring to.

Thanks,
John

Hi John,

So noted. Thank you for the correction.

I never, ever intended to "hurt" Terry or you. I thought I made it clear that I was determined to correct the problems myself, on my dime, and see the project through. I mentioned it to Terry at Kerrville, but we were all very busy. In fact, you may recall that I was one of your biggest fans. In the interview I did with Terry, I provided him an opportunity to dispel the negative press. I have been one of your biggest champions. The recent video was me sharing progress of the project.

With all that said, I have a serious bad taste for this project now. If you're willing to refund, I will gladly ship everything back to you. Considering how much hate I have received on the forums, emails, and comments this weekend, I'm seriously reconsidering my commitment to Model A people.

I will get everything crated up and ready to go ASAP. Please tell Terry I'm sorry, but he owes me an apology for calling me a drunk. That was beneath him.

The video is deleted. I regret even mentioning that I was building Burtz engines. It won't happen again.

Kindest regards,
Paul

[JRLampl]

Hi Paul,

I am happy to refund you if that is your preference. Just a note, if a block has any kind of an issue, we need to see that for our own quality assesment. We want it back so it can be further examined. If there is a problem with a customer's block kit, we want to make it right and either replace or refund, which ever the preference. I will get with you off the forum to arrange this.

I don't think Terry ever implied anything about you being a "drunk". The way I read his comment was that who ever was doing the measurements maybe was having a beer.. I saw it as a light joke and not directed at you.

Don't let this episode diminish your obvious enthusiasm for the Model A community. Keep up your work for the good of all.

Thanks,
John

[nkaminar]

Please support Paul Shinns. Besides his videos being entertaining and well done, they are educational and have helped many Model A owners over the years. Either use this forum or email him. Perhaps another thread to show support?

This has been an unfortunate public fight brought on by some major misunderstanding. But it should not result in Paul taking his ball and going home.

[wwirz]

Let's put all this behind us for the good of our job u
We need the Burtz blocks and engines. We need more Paul Shinn videos. The hobby needs Terry and Paul.,.. everyone agree?

[wwirz]

Sorry,...meant to say for the good of our hobby not "job". Doggone cell phone typing ��

[Conaway2]

Terry and Paul - you’ve both made significant contributions to our enjoyment and preservation of Model A Fords; I hope this will continue.

I’ve owned four Model A’s in the past 55+ years, and believe the availability of technical resources, parts and now new engines is better today than it has been since the 1930’s - thanks in part to contributions from both of you.

As President of the Low Country Model A Ford Club in Charleston, South Carolina, I write monthly articles for our Quail Mail newsletter, which is published on both our website (https://www.lowcountrymodela.org/ ) and Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/lowcountrymodelafordclub). My February 2022 article introduced the new Burtz engine to our club members, and my September 2022 article similarly introduces Paul Shinn’s videos. (The September issue of Quail Mail will be uploaded to both sites in the next few days; in the meantime, I’ll be happy to send a pdf copy of my September article to anyone who is interested.)

I sincerely hope there is constructive resolution to the current disagreement. As an almost 70-year-old Model A owner, I want to see continued availability of the new Burtz engine, as well as new videos from Paul Shinn.

Jim Conaway
President, LCMAFC

[BrianH]

Paul, don't give up! Your valuable information is much appreciated. I have enjoyed watching your videos as well as Model T's. Also, don't give up on your Burtz engines. I bet if you measure those crankshafts with the v-block method you will find them to be within spec's. Thank you for all you do for the Model A community.
Brian H

[Bob Bidonde]

I saw the video too, but I am not so certain that the opinions about the consequences of eccentricities are as bad as reported to be. Everything has a tolerance. A human hair is 0.002" to 0.007" in diameter. What are the allowable deviations, and are they within Terry's design allowances?

[amclass]

People. Keep in mind: Most Model A's die with their owners. We need the experts among you and also those who show their love for the Model A. How else can the next generation fall in love with a pre-war car. At 53, I'm probably one of the youngest among you. Without Paul Shinn's videos I probably wouldn't have dared to buy a Model A. Although this has been a dream for a long time, I needed certainty that a newbie could also handle this car without having to constantly consult an old-school expert. We need people like Paul Shinn and we need those of you who know what you're talking about. Please stop this dogfight, put your egos aside and start all over again as friends. I'm sure you both can do better than this...

[Ernie Vitucci]

Good Day to Everyone...Just a thought from a fellow who worked in print journalism for 30 years. I see two sides to this story...one simple news reporting...the other working within an industry. I'm 75 and long retired...In my day, we tried very hard to have two ways to confirm the facts that we reported...occasionally we went with one set of facts...if we were sure they were correct...That's what Paul did...As a journalist, he was doing his job...However, as someone who who is part of a large family...The Model A Ford family...it would have been better to have contacted John and said 'I have some facts regarding your blocks that need a second opinion before I report them. Are you willing to make the measurements and confirm or not confirm what I have been told?
I hope that John will video the work required to confirm or not confirm the facts as reported and share what is learned with all of us...often in life we learn better ways to do things as we go along...For the good of the hobby...Paul and John and Terry need to have a good working reltionship...Ernie in Arizona.

[john charlton]

If JKY includes us all I think we all promote the Model A Ford why else would we post ??? Where else can you get an up to date weather report from Suffolk County England ??? I do hope Paul is not put off from You Tube posting I for one find his posts informative and entertaining any comment I make he takes in good part ,dipper tray !!! And hats off to Terry Burtz for all his hard work and all for the hobby of course it cannot be a get rich quick scheme for sure .

John in cool overcast autumn evening Suffolk County England .

[Lenny Bruce]

To Paul Shinn…Thank you so much for your videos! They inspired me to buy my first 1930 Tudor Sedan this May. Your videos have helped me tremendously. Nobodies perfect and I’m sure your latest video wasn’t something you intended to cause issues with anyone. Just my opinion that you are surely a huge motivator for all ages of new and old Model A enthusiasts.
Hopefully this doesn’t deter you from making more videos. Huge fan…..Lenny