The Ford Barn

ms fowler · 03-11-2022, 07:29 AM

I am helping a friend with his'38 pickup. He has had it for about 15 years and has pretty much restored the frame and running gear. He has hit a road block on the body and has been stalled for a couple of years. I have offered to help him get back on track. Its a bigger task that I imagined!
I now have most of the body sheet metal in my shop. I am concentrating on getting the cab primed and then painted--once he settles on a color, as getting the painted cab back on the frame would allow him to begin other tasks that can't happen until the cab is done--stuff like electrical system, glass, interior trim etc.
He took it apart before digital cameras were common so there is no photo documentation of the disassembly.
Is there a "body assembly manual" that shows how all the sheet mental goes back together. I can figure out most, but some details are obscure.
He bought a reproduction battery box that fits the hole in the firewall. The battery box has a bracket tack-welded onto each side that looks to be for the hold-down from that sits on top of the battery. There are also 2 holes in the firewall--one on each side that look like they should have a long bolt that goes to the top hold down frame for the battery. This seems alien to Ford's production methods--I would think that a single long bolt from the top of the battery hold down frame would bolt directly to the firewall. The brackets on the sides of the battery box would seem to be superfluous and redundant--and Ford did not do that kind of stuff very much. The flange on the sides of the battery box is also notched---seemingly to allow the long bolts to go from the top hold down all the way to the firewall.
Are those tacked-on brackets not supposed to be there?
I tried to attach a photo but the upload failed--maybe the image file is too large. i will try to send a different photo later.

More questions to come, I am sure.

alanwoodieman · 03-11-2022, 08:31 AM

best thing you could do was find someone close with an original truck or the v8 club's 38/39 book which shows cars but most of what you are talking about relates to them also. give a general location

Zeke3 · 03-11-2022, 09:07 AM

I have a 1937 passenger car with the same setup on the battery box. Those brackets are needed to secure the battery clamp. The hold-down bolts are like a doglegged carriage bolt and are secured by a nut and washer from inside the car. You can find pictures of the bolts on E-Bay.

1939mars · 03-11-2022, 10:24 PM

I have hundreds of pictures of the disassembly of my '39 pickup as well as a running vehicle. PM me an email address if you are looking for more info and I might get lucky and have a picture...

As for the specific question, I've attached 2 pics of the bolts you need. As was said, these go through holes in the firewall. The correct battery hold down for a pickup is a 78- part. It has a 3rd connection to the firewall. Unfortunately mine is not on my vehicle so I can't send a picture until I get into my loft. The 2-bolt version will still work just fine, its just not correct.

1939mars · 03-11-2022, 10:31 PM

Here are a couple of (rusted out) battery box photos. You can see the hole for the 3rd bolt in the rusty picture.

Oh my gosh - I was going to put a link to the 2-bolt version of the hold down and I just found someone must be making the 3-bolt
https://www.earlyfordstore.com/produ...cc1c7c38&_ss=r

eric huffman · 03-12-2022, 02:44 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

I bought a interior kit for my 1939 1/2 ton truck. It came with the stock green press board door panels that went on the 1938 year. My 39 has metal panels. I'll donate these to the cause IF he will use them. Just pay shipping! Brand new never used. I also bought the oak bed support kit and only needed to replace the front oak cross member. If he needs the brand new rear oak cross member it's his for $100.00. I could ship it all together to save money too.
Bird

ms fowler · 03-12-2022, 03:43 PM

Apparently my first attempt at a response is lost in the 'net somewhere...

Thanks for all the rapid responses. With this blizzard and cold temps here in south central PA, I doubt I am going to the garage for a day or two. I want to get a picture of the firewall that is a smaller file size so i can send it.
Tell me about the book. Are you talking about the Early V8 Club? What kind of book is that?
I also see a common "Body parts list" Is that the illustration portion of the parts catalog? Most of my experience is a bit later--I restored ( and sold) a 1964 Falcon Sprint Convertible. I am familiar with the 1960-64 Parts Books, Text and Illustrations---is the body parts list book sort of the same thing except for the earlier cars?

This will not be an "authentic" restoration--at least not according to AACA definitions. He already has a later Flathead installed in the frame. The radiator hoses from the engine are a different size than the '38 radiator. I am sure there is a simple solution since people have been stuffing flatheads into a variety of bodies for years. Can anyone share that solution?
Other than the battery box, my next areas of concern will be---
How and when to adjust the doors---Will the cab be rigid enough to do that without being mounted on the frame. There doesn't appear to be much adjustment built into the hinges.
How do the front fenders and running boards attach to the cab and the frame? My assumption is that the inner fenders bolt to the frame and then support the fenders, themselves. Are there fender braces like A's and early V8s had?
It looks like the engine side panels just slip into the fenders with no bolts so they can be easily removed. Is that right?
I think we will be looking for a grill and have a front fender to sell--it is in pretty poor shape, but it is steel. More on that stuff later.
Thanks again for the responses--this is like trying to solve a jig saw puzzle with 3 pieces missing and no picture of the end result.
My email is [email protected]
Again, thanks.
Michael

ms fowler · 03-12-2022, 03:53 PM

Yes, that looks correct. Does a bolt go thru that upper hole?

So, I was wrong and Ford used different bolts for the battery box-to firewall and the top hold down? My! How wasteful! I guess they wanted to have a secured battery box coming down the assembly line well before they needed to install the battery.

ms fowler · 03-12-2022, 04:01 PM

A bit of history--not much is known except that it had been used as a plumber's truck. There were racks on the left side of the bed and the left front fender for long pieces of pipe. The springs both had extra leaves on them and there was a set of help springs on the rear. We couldn't deflect the springs and the helps never came into contact with anything. My guess he carried some impressive loads.
Truck was converted to hydraulic brakes decades ago and he left that system in place.
It looks like the truck was originally painted black from the factory, but was later painted blue--not Washington Blue, and the cowl ventilator is vermillion.

Any absolute common "rookie mistakes" I should be aware of?

Tinker · 03-12-2022, 09:43 PM

Sounds like a cool rig. Are they keeping the utility boxes? Spring setup is farily common.

I don't know if there is a manual step by step. Even if there is I'm sure it's missing actual experience. No one every tells you to set up the grill and radiator with the hood before puting the fenders on. and etc.

Just ask questions here. Plenty of help from these fine folks. Pictures are always a plus.

Good luck and looking forward to further posts.

.

ms fowler · 03-13-2022, 07:38 AM

Tinker--I am already sensing that there are a lot of fine folk willing to help. It is a good community.

oldandtired · 03-13-2022, 08:23 AM

Ms Fowler...I was told that when Ford moved the battery from under the cab of the pickup to the firewall in 1937 that there were concerns that the battery could be easily stolen since the hood latches were not lockable. The cab on the other hand was lockable, hence the third bolt that passed through the battery hold down into the cab. I don't know if that is the whole story or not, but it made sense. The two different length battery bolts pictured are unique to the pickups and trucks. The passenger car battery bolts for 37 are shorter and will not interchange.

62pan · 03-13-2022, 09:07 AM

Not sure where in pa your located but if your close to Middletown your welcome to take a look at my 39. It's not correct by any means but its should help with a lot of your questions.

ms fowler · 03-13-2022, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 62pan

Not sure where in pa your located but if your close to Middletown your welcome to take a look at my 39. It's not correct by any means but its should help with a lot of your questions.

Middletown by the Harrisburg Airport and the Penn State campus? That Middletown?

ms fowler · 03-13-2022, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldandtired

Ms Fowler...I was told that when Ford moved the battery from under the cab of the pickup to the firewall in 1937 that there were concerns that the battery could be easily stolen since the hood latches were not lockable. The cab on the other hand was lockable, hence the third bolt that passed through the battery hold down into the cab. I don't know if that is the whole story or not, but it made sense. The two different length battery bolts pictured are unique to the pickups and trucks. The passenger car battery bolts for 37 are shorter and will not interchange.

That makes sense--people were no more honest then than today.

ms fowler · 03-13-2022, 02:38 PM

If this works,----here is a picture of the firewall.

Thanks for the help.

62pan · 03-13-2022, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ms fowler

Middletown by the Harrisburg Airport and the Penn State campus? That Middletown?

That's the one.

GaryU. · 03-13-2022, 05:26 PM

Got a look at your pdf and have a couple comments. First the firewall appears to be not very molested other than the battery tray, which like mine was probably toasted by a leaking battery, so you have purchased what some vendors have listed as both for passenger car and commercial application. This is incorrect as the tray you have is only for passenger vehicles. The fit on the right(passenger side) is alright but the left(driver's side) is much too high to fit correctly. Also the left side has a semi-circle cut out that did not appear on commercial trays. I ended up cutting down the left side and rebending the flange for my pick-up and if you didn't know better you would not know it's not totally correct. Last, the hold down bolts are very hard to find and even if you find a pair, depending on the battery height they might not fit without some additional hardware.

38bill · 03-13-2022, 08:03 PM

Found a photo of my '38 truck.

62pan · 03-13-2022, 08:20 PM

Ms Fowler sent you a pm

03-11-2022, 07:29 AM	#1
ms fowler Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2022 Posts: 144	'38 pickup I am helping a friend with his'38 pickup. He has had it for about 15 years and has pretty much restored the frame and running gear. He has hit a road block on the body and has been stalled for a couple of years. I have offered to help him get back on track. Its a bigger task that I imagined! I now have most of the body sheet metal in my shop. I am concentrating on getting the cab primed and then painted--once he settles on a color, as getting the painted cab back on the frame would allow him to begin other tasks that can't happen until the cab is done--stuff like electrical system, glass, interior trim etc. He took it apart before digital cameras were common so there is no photo documentation of the disassembly. Is there a "body assembly manual" that shows how all the sheet mental goes back together. I can figure out most, but some details are obscure. He bought a reproduction battery box that fits the hole in the firewall. The battery box has a bracket tack-welded onto each side that looks to be for the hold-down from that sits on top of the battery. There are also 2 holes in the firewall--one on each side that look like they should have a long bolt that goes to the top hold down frame for the battery. This seems alien to Ford's production methods--I would think that a single long bolt from the top of the battery hold down frame would bolt directly to the firewall. The brackets on the sides of the battery box would seem to be superfluous and redundant--and Ford did not do that kind of stuff very much. The flange on the sides of the battery box is also notched---seemingly to allow the long bolts to go from the top hold down all the way to the firewall. Are those tacked-on brackets not supposed to be there? I tried to attach a photo but the upload failed--maybe the image file is too large. i will try to send a different photo later. More questions to come, I am sure.

03-11-2022, 08:31 AM	#2
alanwoodieman Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: upstate SC Posts: 2,964	Re: '38 pickup best thing you could do was find someone close with an original truck or the v8 club's 38/39 book which shows cars but most of what you are talking about relates to them also. give a general location

03-11-2022, 09:07 AM	#3
Zeke3 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Columbus, IN Posts: 1,407	Re: '38 pickup I have a 1937 passenger car with the same setup on the battery box. Those brackets are needed to secure the battery clamp. The hold-down bolts are like a doglegged carriage bolt and are secured by a nut and washer from inside the car. You can find pictures of the bolts on E-Bay.

03-12-2022, 02:44 PM	#6
eric huffman Member Join Date: Sep 2018 Location: San Diego Posts: 45	Re: '38 pickup Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) I bought a interior kit for my 1939 1/2 ton truck. It came with the stock green press board door panels that went on the 1938 year. My 39 has metal panels. I'll donate these to the cause IF he will use them. Just pay shipping! Brand new never used. I also bought the oak bed support kit and only needed to replace the front oak cross member. If he needs the brand new rear oak cross member it's his for $100.00. I could ship it all together to save money too. Bird

03-12-2022, 03:43 PM	#7
ms fowler Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2022 Posts: 144	Re: '38 pickup Apparently my first attempt at a response is lost in the 'net somewhere... Thanks for all the rapid responses. With this blizzard and cold temps here in south central PA, I doubt I am going to the garage for a day or two. I want to get a picture of the firewall that is a smaller file size so i can send it. Tell me about the book. Are you talking about the Early V8 Club? What kind of book is that? I also see a common "Body parts list" Is that the illustration portion of the parts catalog? Most of my experience is a bit later--I restored ( and sold) a 1964 Falcon Sprint Convertible. I am familiar with the 1960-64 Parts Books, Text and Illustrations---is the body parts list book sort of the same thing except for the earlier cars? This will not be an "authentic" restoration--at least not according to AACA definitions. He already has a later Flathead installed in the frame. The radiator hoses from the engine are a different size than the '38 radiator. I am sure there is a simple solution since people have been stuffing flatheads into a variety of bodies for years. Can anyone share that solution? Other than the battery box, my next areas of concern will be--- How and when to adjust the doors---Will the cab be rigid enough to do that without being mounted on the frame. There doesn't appear to be much adjustment built into the hinges. How do the front fenders and running boards attach to the cab and the frame? My assumption is that the inner fenders bolt to the frame and then support the fenders, themselves. Are there fender braces like A's and early V8s had? It looks like the engine side panels just slip into the fenders with no bolts so they can be easily removed. Is that right? I think we will be looking for a grill and have a front fender to sell--it is in pretty poor shape, but it is steel. More on that stuff later. Thanks again for the responses--this is like trying to solve a jig saw puzzle with 3 pieces missing and no picture of the end result. My email is [email protected] Again, thanks. Michael

03-12-2022, 03:53 PM	#8
ms fowler Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2022 Posts: 144	Re: '38 pickup Yes, that looks correct. Does a bolt go thru that upper hole? So, I was wrong and Ford used different bolts for the battery box-to firewall and the top hold down? My! How wasteful! I guess they wanted to have a secured battery box coming down the assembly line well before they needed to install the battery.

03-12-2022, 04:01 PM	#9
ms fowler Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2022 Posts: 144	Re: '38 pickup A bit of history--not much is known except that it had been used as a plumber's truck. There were racks on the left side of the bed and the left front fender for long pieces of pipe. The springs both had extra leaves on them and there was a set of help springs on the rear. We couldn't deflect the springs and the helps never came into contact with anything. My guess he carried some impressive loads. Truck was converted to hydraulic brakes decades ago and he left that system in place. It looks like the truck was originally painted black from the factory, but was later painted blue--not Washington Blue, and the cowl ventilator is vermillion. Any absolute common "rookie mistakes" I should be aware of?

03-12-2022, 09:43 PM	#10
Tinker Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: MN Posts: 7,053	Re: '38 pickup Sounds like a cool rig. Are they keeping the utility boxes? Spring setup is farily common. I don't know if there is a manual step by step. Even if there is I'm sure it's missing actual experience. No one every tells you to set up the grill and radiator with the hood before puting the fenders on. and etc. Just ask questions here. Plenty of help from these fine folks. Pictures are always a plus. Good luck and looking forward to further posts. .

03-13-2022, 07:38 AM	#11
ms fowler Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2022 Posts: 144	Re: '38 pickup Tinker--I am already sensing that there are a lot of fine folk willing to help. It is a good community.

03-13-2022, 08:23 AM	#12
oldandtired Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Edgefield, SC Posts: 811	Re: '38 pickup Ms Fowler...I was told that when Ford moved the battery from under the cab of the pickup to the firewall in 1937 that there were concerns that the battery could be easily stolen since the hood latches were not lockable. The cab on the other hand was lockable, hence the third bolt that passed through the battery hold down into the cab. I don't know if that is the whole story or not, but it made sense. The two different length battery bolts pictured are unique to the pickups and trucks. The passenger car battery bolts for 37 are shorter and will not interchange.

03-13-2022, 09:07 AM	#13
62pan Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Middletown Pa Posts: 391	Re: '38 pickup Not sure where in pa your located but if your close to Middletown your welcome to take a look at my 39. It's not correct by any means but its should help with a lot of your questions.

03-13-2022, 05:26 PM	#18
GaryU. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Beaver Dam, Wisconsin Posts: 821	Re: '38 pickup Got a look at your pdf and have a couple comments. First the firewall appears to be not very molested other than the battery tray, which like mine was probably toasted by a leaking battery, so you have purchased what some vendors have listed as both for passenger car and commercial application. This is incorrect as the tray you have is only for passenger vehicles. The fit on the right(passenger side) is alright but the left(driver's side) is much too high to fit correctly. Also the left side has a semi-circle cut out that did not appear on commercial trays. I ended up cutting down the left side and rebending the flange for my pick-up and if you didn't know better you would not know it's not totally correct. Last, the hold down bolts are very hard to find and even if you find a pair, depending on the battery height they might not fit without some additional hardware.

03-13-2022, 08:20 PM	#20
62pan Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Middletown Pa Posts: 391	Re: '38 pickup Ms Fowler sent you a pm