The Ford Barn

JBill · 05-11-2011, 08:30 AM

My A just doesn't have that good old Model A sound. My muffler is a stainless steel Beaver purchased many years ago (and expensive even then). Does anyone else have one of those (though they're no longer manufactured) and is that my problem? What made me fall in love with A's in the first place was their sound, and after all the work and expense I still don't have it!!

Mike V. Florida · 05-11-2011, 09:11 AM

There is someone that is going to make a comment about what I'm about to say but, do you have an otherwise stock system, head, carb etc?

The cars that I have heard that have that "sound" all seem to have an absolute stock system. The number one thing that I found that kills the sound is a HC head. This is just me, by no means am I saying that there may be hundreds of A's that sound "old time" with non "stock" parts, nor am I saying that I have heard every single A running the world, it's just that I have not come across any cars with non stock parts that sound like one when we think of the sound an A makes.

JBill · 05-11-2011, 09:26 AM

It's completely stock.

modeleh · 05-11-2011, 09:30 AM

Mike, I think you might be on to something. The bone stock roadster my grandpa restored in '66, sounds better than my AA with a B cam and BF head.
Now that we're talking about sounds, please Harley owners refrain from telling us how good a vtwin sounds, I know it is hard for you to keep silent, but...

Mitch//pa · 05-11-2011, 09:39 AM

agree:: i had a hc head on my car and lost that sound. i took it off and went back to stock, its now sitting in the corner.
make sure the timing is set right and the idle is not to high this contributes to it also

Mike V. Florida · 05-11-2011, 09:49 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by JBill

It's completely stock.

My guess then is the muffler but just a guess.

JBill · 05-11-2011, 09:54 AM

Runs good with no misses at all speeds, idles smoothly, and the timing is set by the "Marco Method." Maybe I'll just have to go with a new and different muffler, though I hate to do a lot of expensive experimenting! Are those of you with an Aries muffler satisfied that your A sounds right?

Tom Wesenberg · 05-11-2011, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by modeleh

Mike, I think you might be on to something. The bone stock roadster my grandpa restored in '66, sounds better than my AA with a B cam and BF head.
Now that we're talking about sounds, please Harley owners refrain from telling us how good a vtwin sounds, I know it is hard for you to keep silent, but...

A very rare Harley drove by me the other day. It still had the factory QUIET mufflers on.

It seems every other Harley owner feels the need to remove the mufflers and run straight pipes.

I guess the noise laws don't apply to them.

JBILL, My 28 has a bone stock engine and a stainless Aries muffler and has a good sound.

zzlegend · 05-11-2011, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

A very rare Harley drove by me the other day. It still had the factory QUIET mufflers on.

It seems every other Harley owner feels the need to remove the mufflers and run straight pipes.

I guess the noise laws don't apply to them.

JBILL, My 28 has a bone stock engine and a stainless Aries muffler and has a good sound.

Tom, i hear what you are saying about Harleys with straight pipes. Here in Cali it seems like everyone is into loud. Either straight pipes or loud mufflers. Biggest reason i hear all the time is, "i want paople to hear me coming so they dont hit me". Well,,, ok. I bought a new Harley Ultra Dresser when i retired and it still has the stock exhaust. I like quite and i guess i am getting old. Plus i can hear my xm radio.
As for A exhaust, my beater sounds just like an original and i have another motor on a test stand that sounds just as good.

Rainmaker Ron · 05-11-2011, 11:11 AM

[QUOTE=JBill;206828]My A just doesn't have that good old Model A sound. My muffler is a stainless steel Beaver purchased many years ago (and expensive even then). Does anyone else have one of those (though they're no longer manufactured) and is that my problem? What made me fall in love with A's in the first place was their sound, and after all the work and expense I still don't have it!![/QUOTE

Common thinking credits the sound to the peculiar shape of the Model A muffler because that's where we hear the sound. The A muffler likely contributes to the sound but I believe you will find that the puck-a-ta sound is caused by valve timing, specificly overlap...intake and exhaust open at the same time however briefly.
Rainmaker Ron

Tom Wesenberg · 05-11-2011, 11:27 AM

My first thoughts were the same as Ron's. I'd suspect a worn or poorly reground cam. Maybe not poorly reground, but not ground to Model A specs.

Charlie Stephens · 05-11-2011, 11:36 AM

My guess would be the muffler. I wonder if they changed the design inside where they thought it wouldn't matter? Years ago someone stopped by my house with a Model A that had the classic sound. When he opened the hood it was a 4 cylinder Chevy II engine.

Charlie Stephens

JBill · 05-11-2011, 12:11 PM

Tom W: Antique Engine Rebuilding in Skokie, IL, rebuilt the engine so I'm pretty confident that it was done right. I think I'll just try the regular steel Aries. BTW, on the Aries website they have an A with "an old muffler" idling for a few seconds and then offer the same car idling with an Aries. I frankly like the sound of the old muffler better!! They also have it idling with no muffler at all, and that's not so good. I suspect it sounds more like the Harleys you're talking about.

Thanks to all for the responses.

TK in LA · 05-11-2011, 12:22 PM

Another consideration is the metal itself. Take a wrench and tap on an original muffler and tap on a later aftermarket. The exhaust explosions in the pipe (muffler) are able to resonate more easily in the thinner older material. That's why they need to be replaced more often. As for Harley pipes, as I get older and the hearing isn't as good, I like the sound. Reminds me of when i was a kid putting playing cards in the spokes.
My 2¢

2manycars · 05-11-2011, 12:35 PM

I think the sound many of us think of as the "normal" model A sound is the sound of the cheap midas mufflers that we all used for many years, until Aries started making the correct muffler. My cars are quiet, with Aries mufflers. Some cars come to a show or tour and they have that loud puckty puckty sound of the cheap muffler with pie plates for baffles. Just my opinion.

john hamilton · 05-11-2011, 12:46 PM

Back in the day they called that sound "Cadillacing" and it told them that all was well. My first A had it and my dad and the family mechanic wanted me to just leave it idling so they could hear it and recall old times.

bogdonj · 05-11-2011, 12:49 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfmAydqDRf4 our model a after an engine rebuilt. Our old engine sounded like a tractor and I replaced everything on the car. In the video the idle still wasn't set 100% and we switched out the carb and it even sound better now! .....still working on the horn lol

Justin

MikeK · 05-11-2011, 01:23 PM

Most people attribute all the sound to the exhaust, but there is more. There is also an audible component to the overall sound that comes from the intermittent "suck" through an unfiltered iron Zenith at idle.

The open end of the carb faces rearward, and when standing behind the car or next to the passenger door (Driver's door for Brits and Kiwis) at slow idle it is a noticeable factor. Filters, Air-Mazes, and after-market carbs change that component of the overall "sound".

Rich mix (via GAV), retarded timing (near zero) and very slow idle also contribute to "the sound". Extended running that way is, of course, bad on many levels.

Personally. I just love the "sound", as long as it is not coming out of my car. I need the ability to move briskly in heavy city traffic. I'll keep my SS HP Aries, Stipe 340, big intakes and Super Brum.

Richard Lorenz · 05-11-2011, 02:20 PM

I cut open an old Midas-type muffler that was given to me. I never heard the sound, but it had a thick coating of "carbon" on the inside. This coating could have absorbed some of the high frequency sounds that I believe contribute to the nice Model A sound. The coating probably occurred from running rich for a long time.

Rowdy · 05-11-2011, 02:36 PM

I am not sure where you are at, but I have an original muffler could borrow if you are close enough to pick it up and return it later. Rod

05-11-2011, 08:30 AM	#1
JBill Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 702	That Model A Sound My A just doesn't have that good old Model A sound. My muffler is a stainless steel Beaver purchased many years ago (and expensive even then). Does anyone else have one of those (though they're no longer manufactured) and is that my problem? What made me fall in love with A's in the first place was their sound, and after all the work and expense I still don't have it!!

05-11-2011, 09:11 AM	#2
Mike V. Florida Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: South Florida Posts: 14,054	Re: That Model A Sound There is someone that is going to make a comment about what I'm about to say but, do you have an otherwise stock system, head, carb etc? The cars that I have heard that have that "sound" all seem to have an absolute stock system. The number one thing that I found that kills the sound is a HC head. This is just me, by no means am I saying that there may be hundreds of A's that sound "old time" with non "stock" parts, nor am I saying that I have heard every single A running the world, it's just that I have not come across any cars with non stock parts that sound like one when we think of the sound an A makes. __________________ What's right about America is that although we have a mess of problems, we have great capacity - intellect and resources - to do some thing about them. - Henry Ford II Last edited by Mike V. Florida; 05-11-2011 at 09:16 AM.

05-11-2011, 09:26 AM	#3
JBill Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 702	Re: That Model A Sound It's completely stock.

05-11-2011, 09:30 AM	#4
modeleh Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Nanaimo BC Posts: 242	Re: That Model A Sound Mike, I think you might be on to something. The bone stock roadster my grandpa restored in '66, sounds better than my AA with a B cam and BF head. Now that we're talking about sounds, please Harley owners refrain from telling us how good a vtwin sounds, I know it is hard for you to keep silent, but...

05-11-2011, 09:39 AM	#5
Mitch//pa BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks County, PA Posts: 11,454	Re: That Model A Sound agree:: i had a hc head on my car and lost that sound. i took it off and went back to stock, its now sitting in the corner. make sure the timing is set right and the idle is not to high this contributes to it also

05-11-2011, 09:54 AM	#7
JBill Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 702	Re: That Model A Sound Runs good with no misses at all speeds, idles smoothly, and the timing is set by the "Marco Method." Maybe I'll just have to go with a new and different muffler, though I hate to do a lot of expensive experimenting! Are those of you with an Aries muffler satisfied that your A sounds right?

05-11-2011, 11:11 AM	#10
Rainmaker Ron Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Peoria IL Posts: 282	Re: That Model A Sound [QUOTE=JBill;206828]My A just doesn't have that good old Model A sound. My muffler is a stainless steel Beaver purchased many years ago (and expensive even then). Does anyone else have one of those (though they're no longer manufactured) and is that my problem? What made me fall in love with A's in the first place was their sound, and after all the work and expense I still don't have it!![/QUOTE Common thinking credits the sound to the peculiar shape of the Model A muffler because that's where we hear the sound. The A muffler likely contributes to the sound but I believe you will find that the puck-a-ta sound is caused by valve timing, specificly overlap...intake and exhaust open at the same time however briefly. Rainmaker Ron

05-11-2011, 11:27 AM	#11
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: That Model A Sound My first thoughts were the same as Ron's. I'd suspect a worn or poorly reground cam. Maybe not poorly reground, but not ground to Model A specs.

05-11-2011, 11:36 AM	#12
Charlie Stephens Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern California Posts: 7,075	Re: That Model A Sound My guess would be the muffler. I wonder if they changed the design inside where they thought it wouldn't matter? Years ago someone stopped by my house with a Model A that had the classic sound. When he opened the hood it was a 4 cylinder Chevy II engine. Charlie Stephens

05-11-2011, 12:11 PM	#13
JBill Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 702	Re: That Model A Sound Tom W: Antique Engine Rebuilding in Skokie, IL, rebuilt the engine so I'm pretty confident that it was done right. I think I'll just try the regular steel Aries. BTW, on the Aries website they have an A with "an old muffler" idling for a few seconds and then offer the same car idling with an Aries. I frankly like the sound of the old muffler better!! They also have it idling with no muffler at all, and that's not so good. I suspect it sounds more like the Harleys you're talking about. Thanks to all for the responses.

05-11-2011, 12:22 PM	#14
TK in LA Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: La Verne, Ca. Posts: 831	Re: That Model A Sound Another consideration is the metal itself. Take a wrench and tap on an original muffler and tap on a later aftermarket. The exhaust explosions in the pipe (muffler) are able to resonate more easily in the thinner older material. That's why they need to be replaced more often. As for Harley pipes, as I get older and the hearing isn't as good, I like the sound. Reminds me of when i was a kid putting playing cards in the spokes. My 2¢

05-11-2011, 12:35 PM	#15
2manycars Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Eastern CT Posts: 2,732	Re: That Model A Sound I think the sound many of us think of as the "normal" model A sound is the sound of the cheap midas mufflers that we all used for many years, until Aries started making the correct muffler. My cars are quiet, with Aries mufflers. Some cars come to a show or tour and they have that loud puckty puckty sound of the cheap muffler with pie plates for baffles. Just my opinion.

05-11-2011, 12:46 PM	#16
john hamilton Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Waxahachie, Texas Posts: 241	Re: That Model A Sound Back in the day they called that sound "Cadillacing" and it told them that all was well. My first A had it and my dad and the family mechanic wanted me to just leave it idling so they could hear it and recall old times.

05-11-2011, 12:49 PM	#17
bogdonj Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Walkerton, Ont. Canada Posts: 623	Re: That Model A Sound https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfmAydqDRf4 our model a after an engine rebuilt. Our old engine sounded like a tractor and I replaced everything on the car. In the video the idle still wasn't set 100% and we switched out the carb and it even sound better now! .....still working on the horn lol Justin

05-11-2011, 01:23 PM	#18
MikeK Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Windy City Posts: 2,919	Re: That Model A Sound Most people attribute all the sound to the exhaust, but there is more. There is also an audible component to the overall sound that comes from the intermittent "suck" through an unfiltered iron Zenith at idle. The open end of the carb faces rearward, and when standing behind the car or next to the passenger door (Driver's door for Brits and Kiwis) at slow idle it is a noticeable factor. Filters, Air-Mazes, and after-market carbs change that component of the overall "sound". Rich mix (via GAV), retarded timing (near zero) and very slow idle also contribute to "the sound". Extended running that way is, of course, bad on many levels. Personally. I just love the "sound", as long as it is not coming out of my car. I need the ability to move briskly in heavy city traffic. I'll keep my SS HP Aries, Stipe 340, big intakes and Super Brum.

05-11-2011, 02:20 PM	#19
Richard Lorenz Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 447	Re: That Model A Sound I cut open an old Midas-type muffler that was given to me. I never heard the sound, but it had a thick coating of "carbon" on the inside. This coating could have absorbed some of the high frequency sounds that I believe contribute to the nice Model A sound. The coating probably occurred from running rich for a long time.

05-11-2011, 02:36 PM	#20
Rowdy BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Gothenburg Nebraska Just off I-80 Posts: 4,893	Re: That Model A Sound I am not sure where you are at, but I have an original muffler could borrow if you are close enough to pick it up and return it later. Rod __________________ Do the RIGHT thing - Support the H.A.M.B. Alliance!!!!