The Ford Barn

farmerdick · 03-02-2017, 05:47 PM

Gentlemen, Have any of you used a pneumatic waffle tool? Saw one advertised at Snyders Antique Auto. It looks like a two man job anyway. I am replacing the rear floor curtain pan behind the seat on my AV8 roadster. I have a good quality pop rivet gun but that`s kind of crude when keeping things as original as possible. Thanks.

Richard

rotorwrench · 03-02-2017, 06:20 PM

Ford used several types of big rivet squeezers. I figure they used the waffle pattern anvil to keep the buck tail straight as it was compressed. If the tooling is not well centered up by the operator during the squeeze, a smooth anvil will have more of a tendency to nail the buck tail over to one side. I've seen photos of those big pneumatic squeezers and they are a big hand full. I imagine a guy had to have some big biceps to be able to do that all day. Either that or they got bigger from doing that all day.

I've seen both types of tooling to replicate the waffle pattern. The one that Snyder's sells has the 401 chuck to do the driving from the buck tail end. I've also seen bucking bars that have the waffle pattern so the driving end will be a correct size round head rivet set with a 401 chuck. I have the round head sets in the correct sizes so I used the waffle bucking bar myself. A person would need a bar with the round head indentation to hold the head steady while they reverse buck the rivet with that tool from Snyder's. God forbid if you slip off the rivet during bucking. There would be waffles all over the place!

Pete/Ct. · 03-02-2017, 10:20 PM

I use a pneumatic hammer with an attachment I made by cutting off a pointed end and, using a die grinder put a # shaped grooves in the end of the tool. Used a bucking bar behind it and never had a problem. Pete/Ct.

farmerdick · 03-03-2017, 02:39 PM

I am totally in the dark as to how to use that tool. I`ve never seen a bucking bar never the less used one. I guess I`am wrapping my mind around the situation to how do you hold the rivet in place and mushroom the end over from the other side? Sorry if I am a little dense on this.
Richard

rotorwrench · 03-03-2017, 04:09 PM

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Riveting operations generally utilize a pneumatic air hammer of one sort or another. Mine are specific for riveting and are adjustable to some degree for the power output to the different size rivets involved. Other air hammers are more suitable for chisel bits or punch bits since they don't come with an air or trigger control mechanism. Most use the .401 chuck just like that Snyder's tool.

You can go to ATS to see some of the tooling available. Here is a link to some riveting tool sets.
http://www.aircraft-tool.com/shop/se...=riveting+kits

A rivet is installed heads up into the rivet hole drilled in the parts to be joined then the rivet gun with proper set installed is trained against the head of the rivet. The steel bucking bar is leveled against the tail of the rivet where it protrudes through. A series of blows from the air hammer will cause the heavy bar to mash the rivet buck tail down to about half of the rivet diameter.

Using the waffle tool from Snyder's is backwards. The head would be held with a bar set up to seat the head properly on the material to be joined and then the air hammer would drive the buck tail to half it's normal diameter.

For large rivets, a person has to heat the buck tail with a torch to a red hot state in order for the smaller tooling to even get started to mash it down. The larger the rivet the larger the tooling has to be to drive it easily. Steel rivets are a lot harder to drive than the aluminum ones I usually work with. The smaller body rivets aren't too bad but the big frame rivets take two or three guys to get them set. The larger the tooling the better for those. Body rivets can be set with smaller tooling but it's still a good idea to have a buddy to help.

03-02-2017, 05:47 PM	#1
farmerdick Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Readfield, Maine Posts: 347	Replacing rear floor curtain pan/roadster Gentlemen, Have any of you used a pneumatic waffle tool? Saw one advertised at Snyders Antique Auto. It looks like a two man job anyway. I am replacing the rear floor curtain pan behind the seat on my AV8 roadster. I have a good quality pop rivet gun but that`s kind of crude when keeping things as original as possible. Thanks. Richard

03-02-2017, 06:20 PM	#2
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,436	Re: Replacing rear floor curtain pan/roadster Ford used several types of big rivet squeezers. I figure they used the waffle pattern anvil to keep the buck tail straight as it was compressed. If the tooling is not well centered up by the operator during the squeeze, a smooth anvil will have more of a tendency to nail the buck tail over to one side. I've seen photos of those big pneumatic squeezers and they are a big hand full. I imagine a guy had to have some big biceps to be able to do that all day. Either that or they got bigger from doing that all day. I've seen both types of tooling to replicate the waffle pattern. The one that Snyder's sells has the 401 chuck to do the driving from the buck tail end. I've also seen bucking bars that have the waffle pattern so the driving end will be a correct size round head rivet set with a 401 chuck. I have the round head sets in the correct sizes so I used the waffle bucking bar myself. A person would need a bar with the round head indentation to hold the head steady while they reverse buck the rivet with that tool from Snyder's. God forbid if you slip off the rivet during bucking. There would be waffles all over the place!

03-02-2017, 10:20 PM	#3
Pete/Ct. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Kensington,CT Posts: 339	Re: Replacing rear floor curtain pan/roadster I use a pneumatic hammer with an attachment I made by cutting off a pointed end and, using a die grinder put a # shaped grooves in the end of the tool. Used a bucking bar behind it and never had a problem. Pete/Ct.

03-03-2017, 02:39 PM	#4
farmerdick Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Readfield, Maine Posts: 347	Re: Replacing rear floor curtain pan/roadster I am totally in the dark as to how to use that tool. I`ve never seen a bucking bar never the less used one. I guess I`am wrapping my mind around the situation to how do you hold the rivet in place and mushroom the end over from the other side? Sorry if I am a little dense on this. Richard

03-03-2017, 04:09 PM	#5
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,436	Re: Replacing rear floor curtain pan/roadster Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Riveting operations generally utilize a pneumatic air hammer of one sort or another. Mine are specific for riveting and are adjustable to some degree for the power output to the different size rivets involved. Other air hammers are more suitable for chisel bits or punch bits since they don't come with an air or trigger control mechanism. Most use the .401 chuck just like that Snyder's tool. You can go to ATS to see some of the tooling available. Here is a link to some riveting tool sets. http://www.aircraft-tool.com/shop/se...=riveting+kits A rivet is installed heads up into the rivet hole drilled in the parts to be joined then the rivet gun with proper set installed is trained against the head of the rivet. The steel bucking bar is leveled against the tail of the rivet where it protrudes through. A series of blows from the air hammer will cause the heavy bar to mash the rivet buck tail down to about half of the rivet diameter. Using the waffle tool from Snyder's is backwards. The head would be held with a bar set up to seat the head properly on the material to be joined and then the air hammer would drive the buck tail to half it's normal diameter. For large rivets, a person has to heat the buck tail with a torch to a red hot state in order for the smaller tooling to even get started to mash it down. The larger the rivet the larger the tooling has to be to drive it easily. Steel rivets are a lot harder to drive than the aluminum ones I usually work with. The smaller body rivets aren't too bad but the big frame rivets take two or three guys to get them set. The larger the tooling the better for those. Body rivets can be set with smaller tooling but it's still a good idea to have a buddy to help.