The Ford Barn

baba · 05-06-2022, 02:31 PM

Rebuilt my front end because it steered bad. Sort of a binding situation. New kingpins, one had been installed without reaming the bushings (hence the binding) all back together and worse than ever. Takes quite a bit of effort to turn the wheel. Checked to see if the weight of the car is on the thrust bearings and guess it must be since I cannot turn them by hand unless the front end is jacked up, so guess they are doing their job. Mechanic friend suggested the tie rod may be adjusted poorly and the linkage is fighting each other (his words). I did have it all apart so he might be right. Have been looking at Paul Shinny's;s videos and may try seeing if the toe in is off.
Any ideas appreciated...

Terry, NJ · 05-06-2022, 03:44 PM

Steering problems in a model A Can be diverse and complex. Installed the king pin without reaming? How'd they do that?.......... Get a BFH and start pounding? ( BFH, Big Fornicating Hammer!) The balls on the ends of the steering arms is another good place to look. Some of the "Balls' don't look like they ever were balls, trust me, they were! I have no idea what condition your steering box is in. This may be the cause of your problem also. Check those steering balls first and get a king pin set and FIT the kingpins/steering bolts first. Steering ball diameter is 1.000" all around -.020. If you don't have a micrometer, They are usually available in a flea market at minimal cost, $5 to 10. for a good one.
Terry

nkaminar · 05-06-2022, 04:54 PM

The thrust bearings will need washers so that they work as designed. The washers go under the thrust bearing and the trust bearings are located on top of the spindle.

Break down the steering into the components. Remove the drag link and try the steering box. Remove the tie rod and then try to move the wheels back and forth with the axle jacked up. As you add back components, try the steering to see if that added component is the problem.

chrs1961815 · 05-06-2022, 09:33 PM

Just to be clear, reproduction thrust bearings need washers as they are thinner than originals.

baba · 05-10-2022, 08:30 AM

Removed the drag link from the drivers side wheel and the wheels turn easily. Where the drag link is attached to the pitman arm is apparently the problem.The slotted nut was driven in too tight and is now disassembled on the bench. Wheels are turning freely connected by the tie rod. Strangly, it was turned in only far enough to allow the cotter pin to go in but it was wicked tight. Not sure why it was binding?

rotorwrench · 05-10-2022, 08:55 AM

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What year and type of steering box do you have? I've seen spindle bolt repair sets that came with bronze thrust washers instead of the ball bearing thrust bearings. They steer a lot better with the ball type thrust bearings. The spindle bolt to spindle bushing should push in easily by hand for a light push fit. Sloppy or tight fits are problematic. The bolt should never have to be driven in. If reamed too loose then they will wear out faster. The tie rod and drag link ends should not be too tight is properly adjusted. This link sheds some light on ball & socket fit with spring compression for drag link & pitman arm ends. The 25% spring compression may be a bit tight depending on condition of all the parts.
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37639

Also make sure the front spring is not worn so bad that the tie rod makes contact with the pitman arm.

baba · 05-10-2022, 09:18 AM

29, 7 tooth box. No contact between any of the moving parts. A real mystery. As I mentioned the connection at the pitman arm ball seems to have been way too tight, but only enough to get the cotter pin in. I looked for some kind of foreign object when I took it apart but it all seems to be as it should.

katy · 05-10-2022, 11:03 AM

Wrong spring in the drag link?

nkaminar · 05-10-2022, 01:02 PM

Is the ball round or worn out?

Synchro909 · 05-10-2022, 07:54 PM

Steering can be AWFUL if the king pins are too tight in the bushings. I made that mistake once and it took an experienced mechanic friend to put me onto the problem. To correct it, I took it all apart again and used the unworn part of the old king pin that goes into the axle and some lapping paste to take the binding out of it. Once that was done, it was heaven.

Iceberg7643 · 05-10-2022, 09:45 PM

Find yourself a 2-tooth steering assembly. Rebuild it and install. I did. It was 100 times better than the 7-tooth.

baba · 05-11-2022, 10:54 AM

I like the idea of a 2 tooth assembly. No problem getting it to fit?
I check all of my springs and they are all the same dimension.

Robert/Texas · 05-11-2022, 11:18 AM

I have two Model A’s, an early ’28 open cab pickup and a later ’28 roadster. Both cars have 7-tooth steering boxes. Decades ago, around the mid-1990s I adjusted these boxes as well as I could and had the steering balls on both replaced. I also installed E-Z Steer Teflon kits on the steering arms and drag links. I’m 87 now and have lost a lot of strength but I still feel that both cars are easy to steer unless at a complete stop.

baba · 05-12-2022, 12:17 PM

Wow, Robert, you and I are pretty much the same vintage. I am 88 and the loss of upper body strength is awful. I have been agonizing but decided to pull my front end apart again after installing new king pins and all. I will go through the steps again and see if I can find where I went wrong. Hang in there. Is Burton anywhere near Ft. Hood? I spent a year or so there in the middle 50s.

Robert/Texas · 05-12-2022, 04:08 PM

baba, Burton is a small town with a population of around 300 or so. My place is about 10 miles from there and the post office uses that address. It is about 94 miles north west of Houston. I took my basic training in Fort Carson CO in the 50's. Good luck with your front end work.

05-06-2022, 02:31 PM	#1
baba Member Join Date: Nov 2021 Location: Essex, Vermont Posts: 82	Steers Awful Bad... Rebuilt my front end because it steered bad. Sort of a binding situation. New kingpins, one had been installed without reaming the bushings (hence the binding) all back together and worse than ever. Takes quite a bit of effort to turn the wheel. Checked to see if the weight of the car is on the thrust bearings and guess it must be since I cannot turn them by hand unless the front end is jacked up, so guess they are doing their job. Mechanic friend suggested the tie rod may be adjusted poorly and the linkage is fighting each other (his words). I did have it all apart so he might be right. Have been looking at Paul Shinny's;s videos and may try seeing if the toe in is off. Any ideas appreciated...

05-06-2022, 03:44 PM	#2
Terry, NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks Co, Pa Posts: 3,740	Re: Steers Awful Bad... Steering problems in a model A Can be diverse and complex. Installed the king pin without reaming? How'd they do that?.......... Get a BFH and start pounding? ( BFH, Big Fornicating Hammer!) The balls on the ends of the steering arms is another good place to look. Some of the "Balls' don't look like they ever were balls, trust me, they were! I have no idea what condition your steering box is in. This may be the cause of your problem also. Check those steering balls first and get a king pin set and FIT the kingpins/steering bolts first. Steering ball diameter is 1.000" all around -.020. If you don't have a micrometer, They are usually available in a flea market at minimal cost, $5 to 10. for a good one. Terry

05-06-2022, 04:54 PM	#3
nkaminar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 3,903	Re: Steers Awful Bad... The thrust bearings will need washers so that they work as designed. The washers go under the thrust bearing and the trust bearings are located on top of the spindle. Break down the steering into the components. Remove the drag link and try the steering box. Remove the tie rod and then try to move the wheels back and forth with the axle jacked up. As you add back components, try the steering to see if that added component is the problem. __________________ A is for apple, green as the sky. Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die. Forget the brakes, they really don't work. The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk. My car grows red hair, and flies through the air. Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.

05-06-2022, 09:33 PM	#4
chrs1961815 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2018 Location: Spring Grove, Illinois Posts: 1,371	Re: Steers Awful Bad... Just to be clear, reproduction thrust bearings need washers as they are thinner than originals. __________________ "The more things change, the more they stay the same."

05-10-2022, 08:30 AM	#5
baba Member Join Date: Nov 2021 Location: Essex, Vermont Posts: 82	Re: Steers Awful Bad... Removed the drag link from the drivers side wheel and the wheels turn easily. Where the drag link is attached to the pitman arm is apparently the problem.The slotted nut was driven in too tight and is now disassembled on the bench. Wheels are turning freely connected by the tie rod. Strangly, it was turned in only far enough to allow the cotter pin to go in but it was wicked tight. Not sure why it was binding?

05-10-2022, 08:55 AM	#6
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,440	Re: Steers Awful Bad... Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) What year and type of steering box do you have? I've seen spindle bolt repair sets that came with bronze thrust washers instead of the ball bearing thrust bearings. They steer a lot better with the ball type thrust bearings. The spindle bolt to spindle bushing should push in easily by hand for a light push fit. Sloppy or tight fits are problematic. The bolt should never have to be driven in. If reamed too loose then they will wear out faster. The tie rod and drag link ends should not be too tight is properly adjusted. This link sheds some light on ball & socket fit with spring compression for drag link & pitman arm ends. The 25% spring compression may be a bit tight depending on condition of all the parts. https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37639 Also make sure the front spring is not worn so bad that the tie rod makes contact with the pitman arm. Last edited by rotorwrench; 05-10-2022 at 09:45 AM.

05-10-2022, 09:18 AM	#7
baba Member Join Date: Nov 2021 Location: Essex, Vermont Posts: 82	Re: Steers Awful Bad... 29, 7 tooth box. No contact between any of the moving parts. A real mystery. As I mentioned the connection at the pitman arm ball seems to have been way too tight, but only enough to get the cotter pin in. I looked for some kind of foreign object when I took it apart but it all seems to be as it should.

05-10-2022, 11:03 AM	#8
katy Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Red Deer, Alberta Posts: 5,046	Re: Steers Awful Bad... Wrong spring in the drag link? __________________ If you don't hear a rumor by 10 AM, start one!. Got my education out behind the barn!

05-10-2022, 01:02 PM	#9
nkaminar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 3,903	Re: Steers Awful Bad... Is the ball round or worn out? __________________ A is for apple, green as the sky. Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die. Forget the brakes, they really don't work. The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk. My car grows red hair, and flies through the air. Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.

05-10-2022, 07:54 PM	#10
Synchro909 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 7,496	Re: Steers Awful Bad... Steering can be AWFUL if the king pins are too tight in the bushings. I made that mistake once and it took an experienced mechanic friend to put me onto the problem. To correct it, I took it all apart again and used the unworn part of the old king pin that goes into the axle and some lapping paste to take the binding out of it. Once that was done, it was heaven. __________________ I'm part of the only ever generation with an analogue childhood and a digital adulthood.

05-10-2022, 09:45 PM	#11
Iceberg7643 Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2019 Location: Jamestown, NY Posts: 8	Re: Steers Awful Bad... Find yourself a 2-tooth steering assembly. Rebuild it and install. I did. It was 100 times better than the 7-tooth.

05-11-2022, 10:54 AM	#12
baba Member Join Date: Nov 2021 Location: Essex, Vermont Posts: 82	Re: Steers Awful Bad... I like the idea of a 2 tooth assembly. No problem getting it to fit? I check all of my springs and they are all the same dimension.

05-11-2022, 11:18 AM	#13
Robert/Texas Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Burton, Texas Posts: 681	Re: Steers Awful Bad... I have two Model A’s, an early ’28 open cab pickup and a later ’28 roadster. Both cars have 7-tooth steering boxes. Decades ago, around the mid-1990s I adjusted these boxes as well as I could and had the steering balls on both replaced. I also installed E-Z Steer Teflon kits on the steering arms and drag links. I’m 87 now and have lost a lot of strength but I still feel that both cars are easy to steer unless at a complete stop.

05-12-2022, 12:17 PM	#14
baba Member Join Date: Nov 2021 Location: Essex, Vermont Posts: 82	Re: Steers Awful Bad... Wow, Robert, you and I are pretty much the same vintage. I am 88 and the loss of upper body strength is awful. I have been agonizing but decided to pull my front end apart again after installing new king pins and all. I will go through the steps again and see if I can find where I went wrong. Hang in there. Is Burton anywhere near Ft. Hood? I spent a year or so there in the middle 50s.

05-12-2022, 04:08 PM	#15
Robert/Texas Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Burton, Texas Posts: 681	Re: Steers Awful Bad... baba, Burton is a small town with a population of around 300 or so. My place is about 10 miles from there and the post office uses that address. It is about 94 miles north west of Houston. I took my basic training in Fort Carson CO in the 50's. Good luck with your front end work.