1933 Transmission Removal, Again...

[CC33]

Well, just pulled the transmission, again. Pulled rear wheels, disconnected brake rods, shock dog bone's, rear spring, then lowered and backed out the rear axle with torque tube. It was a lot easier than we thought.

Now to diagnose the shifting problem. Purchased new parts from Van Pelt a year ago, and will try to touch base with him for assistance.

Problem was downshifting 3rd to 2nd, almost impossible. Going into 3rd was not smooth at times as well.

He suggests spacing may be the issue. Spacing???

[Charlie ny]

CC,
Are you using the later gear set with loose syncro rings or are the guts in
the trans the early style with the integral syncro hub. This critical....about 2 or 3
years ago a bunch of not to spec syncro rings hit the market and caused untold
agony in our little part on the business...
If you are dealing with Mac Van Pelt your dealing with the BEST. Mac will
stay by you until all is well. Like everything else Flathead related it's not complicated
but over look one tiny detail and it's a hurtin' world.
Charlie ny

[bobH]

If you are using original 33 trans, with early, integral syncro, as Charlie mentioned, don't set your sights too high. As Charlie posted, Mac Van P will walk you through it, and supply you with the best avail parts. But, that trans is never going to shift as good as a later trans. JMO, based on being an owner of one of these.
I think he will describe the 'spacing' issue as end-play. That could be end-play of second gear on the mainshaft, total end-play of the mainshaft in the case, and maybe end-play of the cluster in the case.
I'd be interested in hearing the end result of this, as I have the same early trans, and I believe mine is as good as it can be, and it exibits the same symptoms you describe. Lots of double clutching required, as though there were no syncros at all.
Again, JMO.

[CC33]

Yes, it is the original trans. I purchased NOS parts from Mac last year. We'll see what turns out. Are you saying that it is common to have difficulty down shifting these?

[FlatheadTed]

photos would help

[DICK SPADARO]

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Quickly reading this post because you have trouble both down shifting and occasional up shift I would be somewhat concerned that the clutch throw was adjusted correctly to full disengage the clutch disc from load. Since you have already pulled the trans its too late now to look in this area but you need to check the pilot bushing or bearing to make sure that it is not sieized or scored.

[David J]

The bad mouthing of the early syncro setup is boundless here and I cannot relate to it at all !!! I ALWAYS use NOS syncros [ as I have pretty much a lifetime supply ] along with NOS hubs , second gears and second gear bushings . This with SAE 140 and I have none of the shifting issues talked about SOOOOO MUCHHHH here . If your syncro is worn A-tall is will NOT work properly . Now I'm not trying to sell you anything [ Keeping the rest of the NOS syncros for personal consumption ] nor am I barking for anyone else but the 33 setup works fine if in good order . As already pointed out if you need to " double clutch " you probably have other issues as well . If you get in the neighborhood I'll let you drive a 33 that is BONE STOCK other than the 34 intake setup and you will see for yourself how they shift & for that matter stop in stock form . The key is having all in good order . I am selling a 34 4d and a fella came by to look at it and he was VERY SURPRISED at how well it shifts & stops . Your call of course but do you really want to lose that wonderful growl in first-reverse ? Enough rambling and I'm sure some will jump up & down screaming over this but it is all cut and dried in my book .

Originally Posted by CC33

Yes, it is the original trans. I purchased NOS parts from Mac last year. We'll see what turns out. Are you saying that it is common to have difficulty down shifting these?

[Charlie ny]

CC,
Dick brings up a good point....the release fork on a '32-'34 is quite
different than the '35 - '48. If your fork has a 48 prefix on it it is the wrong one.
Good point too on the spacing of 2nd gear. Numero uno you should always replace
the splined 2nd gear bushing. After installing on the output shaft the bushing
usually requires fitting to the ID of 2nd gear, I like about .0015 here. The end play
of 2nd gear on the output shaft must be fitted...here I like about .007 to .008.
End play is 'fitted' by having an endless supply of gears and thrust washers to work
with until just the right combination is developed.
Cluster gear end play ? I like about .010....BUT...if the rear thrust face is
galled up in your trans case it's curtains....you'll need another case, most likely.
Charlie ny
PS
Is the syncro ring the correct one for your trans. There is a specific
ring and gear combo for the '32-'34 which is different than '35. The difference
is slight but a very important detail not to be overlooked.
Finally the syncro ring is installed with the lip facing the front of the
trans...for some reason it is shown in many books facing to the rear...even Ford
shows it this way many times....trust me on this.

[1931 flamingo]

CC33: I think Charlie NY rebuilds trannys, he in NY, you in MA, simple.
FWIW
Paul in CT When I was a kid and something went wrong with the 39 trans (32 coupe, olds,ford tranny) I'd pull the engine and tranny (1 hr) and go visit the corner garage, he had buckets of gears, synchros, etc. He'd squat and count teeth, put in case, ck end play, add or subtract washers. 1/2 hr later I'd be home putting it back together "til next time".

[Charlie ny]

Thanks, and much appreciated, but let's let Mac Van Pelt iron this one out.
Charlie ny

[Brian]

CC33, At what speed are you attempting the 3-2 downshift? Unlike modern cars, you'll not be able to downshift at speed, nor should you need to. I drive my 35 justabout everywhere in top gear, seldom need to change gear-ever! Use the engine torque; it is a different technique to modern stuff.

[CC33]

Brian,

Downshift attempted at speeds between 20-30 mph.

[Terry,OH]

CC33: I will second what David J has said about the ability of the original 33 transmission internals to shift properly when set up properly.

[CC33]

Spoke with Mac, I have early '33 shift forks. Later forks are being shipped with new snap rings for the shaft. I will photograph both sets and post pics for future reference.

Will update when we road test this.

Many thanks for the assistance from Mac Van Pelt! We need more in the hobby like him.

[CC33]

Follow up to this problem.

We spoke with Mac and he suggested to change out the "early '33" shift forks I had with a latter version. (Late '33-'34) That and new snap rings, which didn't measure that much different than what was there, but changed them as a precautionary.

Now the car is on the road again and it shifts and down shifts perfectly.
Hats off to Mac Van Pelt and his assistance with technical support and parts on hand.

[Mac VP]

CC33 suggested putting up pictures re his shift fork issue. We'd already taken pics of a nearly identical problem with another customer, so I am attaching that same pic. Basically, it shows a set of badly worn 32-33 forks.....compared to the replacement 33-35 forks. You can see heavy wear in the fork slots (where the shift lever fits) and the extra metal on the flanges of the replacement forks. When making this change, the pressed steel "bracket" that Ford used on the early housings is eliminated. Here is the picture link:
http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/F...comparison.jpg