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04-13-2023, 06:01 AM | #1 |
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Question - C59A Oil Pressure Relief in Lifter Valley
Hope you all donÂ’t mind all these questions, but since it has been so long since this engine was rebuilt my memory is a little faded. As I was working on it, J noticed a threaded hole in the lifter valley at the front of the . Took me a few minutes to realize that this was the location for the pressure relief valve. Panic set in as I wondered where the original parts were, but luckily I found two sets of parts. IÂ’m guessing one set (spring, plunger, and nut) are from the extra oil pump assy I had acquired. Again, no info from what I could see in the flathead books I have which is frustrating as this is exactly why I purchased them. So, I have a few questions pertaining to this relief valve:
1. Is it necessary as there is one already in the sump pump assembly? I seem to recall reading that some folks just plug it. 2. Can I reuse the original spring or do you think a new spring should be used? 3. The contours of the two plungers I have are slightly different. Does it matter which I use? 4. There seems to be gasket used to seal the nut. It appears to be the same used for the one in the oil sump pump. Is this correct? 5. I don’t have this gasket. I seem to recall having an “extra” at some point, but can”t find it. Any suggestions as to what I can use to seal it instead of using the gasket or should I just order another one? |
04-13-2023, 06:04 AM | #2 |
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Re: Question - C59A Oil Pressure Relief in Lifter Valley
Pics of the different contours on the plungers.
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04-13-2023, 06:08 AM | #3 |
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Re: Question - C59A Oil Pressure Relief in Lifter Valley
The location of the oil relief valve in the lifter valley.
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04-13-2023, 06:42 AM | #4 |
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Re: Question - C59A Oil Pressure Relief in Lifter Valley
The correct plunger has a flat on it to allow a controlled leak. I have not seen a gasket or copper washer or anything on the retainer. The area under the retainer has a hole leading into the timing gear area therefore is not pressurised so there is no real need for a seal.
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04-13-2023, 07:51 AM | #5 |
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Re: Question - C59A Oil Pressure Relief in Lifter Valley
Thanks again Mart. Very much appreciated! Between the two plungers which of the two would you think is the better? One seems to be more tapered with a smaller flat on top. It also has a slight ridge from wear. The other is more rounded with a larger flat on top, but also has a flat deformation on the surface.
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04-13-2023, 09:53 AM | #6 |
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Re: Question - C59A Oil Pressure Relief in Lifter Valley
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04-13-2023, 11:43 AM | #7 |
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Re: Question - C59A Oil Pressure Relief in Lifter Valley
So I was wondering what is point of having another in the sump pump?
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04-13-2023, 01:05 PM | #8 |
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Re: Question - C59A Oil Pressure Relief in Lifter Valley
There isn't. 8BA type motors don't have that valve in the block. They rely on the one in the pump (as do French by the way).
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04-13-2023, 01:27 PM | #9 |
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Re: Question - C59A Oil Pressure Relief in Lifter Valley
My engine has/had both. Are you saying if a I have one in the sump pump I don’t need the one in the lifter valley?
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04-13-2023, 01:56 PM | #10 |
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Re: Question - C59A Oil Pressure Relief in Lifter Valley
The function of the pressure relief valve is to remove undo load on the pump (and therefore unnecessary heating the oil) in cases of extremely high oil pressure. I believe it's best to relieve it right at the pump rather than allow it to go almost all the way through the engine, which would defeat the purpose of the relief system.
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04-13-2023, 02:29 PM | #11 |
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Re: Question - C59A Oil Pressure Relief in Lifter Valley
Ok. Thanks. Seems a bit odd to me, but I’ll read up on it now as I’m curious. IIRC the one in the sump opens at 80PSI and the one in the valley I’m not sure about. The two springs I have look identical though.
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04-13-2023, 04:23 PM | #12 |
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Re: Question - C59A Oil Pressure Relief in Lifter Valley
The 8BA pumps have a factory specification of 57 psi. I would expect the relief valve to open at that pressure. After my debacle with a Speedway pump https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...light=Speedway in a fresh engine, I sent 3 original Ford pumps to "flatjack9" here on the barn for testing. All three came back with a positive result, with the relief valves opening right around 57 psi. The use of 8BA pumps in early engines has become almost SOP.
The 80 psi you are referencing is the maximum output from the pump, not the regulated output. |
04-13-2023, 04:58 PM | #13 |
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Re: Question - C59A Oil Pressure Relief in Lifter Valley
Leave them both in. The front of the motor needs the controlled bleed off from the front valve.
That's what I would do, and do do, if that makes sense. |
04-13-2023, 07:40 PM | #14 | |
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Re: Question - C59A Oil Pressure Relief in Lifter Valley
Quote:
As to the bypass on the early blocks the reason there's a flat spot on the bypass ball is so that there's extra oil splashing around in the front timing cover area. This additional oil splashing around eventually gets into the small oil holes located in the face of the early block these holes lines up with the oil hole in the rear of the early water pumps. The oil from this hole is now lubricating the bushings in the early water pumps. Todays reproduction early water pumps now come with sealed bearings similar to how the latter water pumps are designed thus no need for that additional oil splashing around in the earlier engine's if the newer type pumps are being used. Any early engine I build I always close off that front bypass if newer style water pumps are being used. This eliminates a bleed on the oil system. Ronnieroadster
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I use the F word a lot no not that word these words Flathead , Focus and Finish. "Life Member of the Bonneville 200 MPH Club using a Ford Flathead block" Owner , Builder, Driver of the First Ford Flathead bodied roadster to run 200 MPH Record July 13, 2018 LTA timing association 200.921 in one and a half miles burning gasoline. First ever gas burning Ford flathead powered roadster to run 200 MPH at Bonneville Salt Flats setting the record August 7th 2021 at 205.744 MPH |
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04-13-2023, 08:09 PM | #15 | |
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Re: Question - C59A Oil Pressure Relief in Lifter Valley
Quote:
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04-13-2023, 08:14 PM | #16 | |
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Re: Question - C59A Oil Pressure Relief in Lifter Valley
Quote:
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04-13-2023, 08:30 PM | #17 | |
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Re: Question - C59A Oil Pressure Relief in Lifter Valley
Quote:
Ronnieroadster
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I use the F word a lot no not that word these words Flathead , Focus and Finish. "Life Member of the Bonneville 200 MPH Club using a Ford Flathead block" Owner , Builder, Driver of the First Ford Flathead bodied roadster to run 200 MPH Record July 13, 2018 LTA timing association 200.921 in one and a half miles burning gasoline. First ever gas burning Ford flathead powered roadster to run 200 MPH at Bonneville Salt Flats setting the record August 7th 2021 at 205.744 MPH |
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04-15-2023, 02:55 PM | #18 |
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Re: Question - C59A Oil Pressure Relief in Lifter Valley
We have hands on experience with the valley relief... we left it off our last motor and had a bit of trouble figuring out why the motor had zero oil pressure. New parts (the 3 pieces) are available from Mike at Third Gen Auto in TN.
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04-15-2023, 03:34 PM | #19 |
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Re: Question - C59A Oil Pressure Relief in Lifter Valley
RR has it correct I just finished a engine using a late oil pump with both regulators in. Once the engine got hot, I had very little pressure. I read old posts from GM who suggested hard shimming the front relief valve down so I put a ground off 1/4" nut in the front cap. Problem solved. Pressure is 40 or better while driving and 10 or so idling. Those two valves were fighting each other.
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04-15-2023, 04:52 PM | #20 |
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Re: Question - C59A Oil Pressure Relief in Lifter Valley
From the interweebs. Says pressure relief spring for cylinder block - 80 PSI. WTH?
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