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08-12-2018, 03:45 PM | #41 | |
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Re: question. simple starter motor conversion to 12v
Quote:
Yes, mine is going to chew up the ring gear teeth if I don't get it modified.
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08-12-2018, 07:56 PM | #42 | |
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Re: question. simple starter motor conversion to 12v
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I feel like we're speaking two different but related languages: you, engineering and me, physics (although perhaps somewhat out of date). Perhaps you could answer a question to see if we have some common ground. Do we agree that Ohm's Law, V=IR, cannot reliably used for circuits with inductance or capacitance elements? |
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08-13-2018, 12:30 AM | #43 | |
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Re: question. simple starter motor conversion to 12v
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Anything that functions on the relationship between electricity and magnetism, like any motor, will be highly inductive and, while running will not simply follow Ohm’s law. Case in point: The starter motor in this discussion. If it draws 125A @ 6V while running at cranking speed it WILL NOT draw twice that @12 while running. For most parallel dual field DC series motors that number will be about 1.4X the amperage if you double the voltage. Now, does this mean you will not get 4X the power? Yes and no. While running, no. Stalled, yes. At that point it will draw near 2X the amperage. The motor will transition from 4X “power” (actually ~3.8X if you want to set up a dyno on a test bench for the starter in question) to about 2X as the inductive reactance changes in a non-linear relationship with armature rotational velocity. The near-stall speed 4X (OK, ~3.8X) is what imparts the increased momentum energy in the armature/Bendix that creates the nasty ‘crash’ engagement. On anything I’ve posted on Model A forums I’ve always tried to keep things in perspective of the audience. Not too many engineers here, so I have rarely delved into application of the work of Henry, Farad, Steinmetz, etc. . . for electrical problems. Even if I did, this forum lacks a math editor/font, and if I started posting anything with calc or functions derived from the work of anyone beyond Volta, Ampere, and Ohm I’d be talking to an audience of one (You!). I spent too many years scribbling that kind of stuff on blackboards in front of wannabe EE’s and ME’s with blank looks. |
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08-13-2018, 11:02 AM | #44 |
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Re: question. simple starter motor conversion to 12v
Mike, Okay, that little flashback is a good place to wrap this up. Now I'm picturing years of blank looks staring back at me in P. Chem. classses. I'm supposed to be doing this for fun.
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08-13-2018, 09:22 PM | #45 |
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Re: question. simple starter motor conversion to 12v
I was a blank look once but I am feeling much better now.
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09-25-2018, 09:23 PM | #46 |
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Re: question. simple starter motor conversion to 12v
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I went and put a starter bendix spring in line. it now has slightly less of an impact. Only slightly less but not very significant. I have ordered a new field coil. gary
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09-26-2018, 07:54 AM | #47 |
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Re: question. simple starter motor conversion to 12v
I'm surprised nobody mentioned this:
http://www.qualitypowerauto.com/item...-Flatheads.htm Not the cheapest, nor original, but probably the simplest solution to convert from 6V to 12V. |
09-26-2018, 10:00 AM | #48 | |
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Re: question. simple starter motor conversion to 12v
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Not too many engineers but I'm sure more than 1. So an audience of perhaps 2. |
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09-26-2018, 01:47 PM | #49 | |
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Re: question. simple starter motor conversion to 12v
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I have used those since they came out many years ago. They can be had for around $100 on eBay if you watch for them. At one time I even showed how to use a floor type headlight dimmer switch mounted in the original start pedal hole to activate it. Last edited by Pete; 09-26-2018 at 06:15 PM. |
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09-26-2018, 03:54 PM | #50 | |
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Re: question. simple starter motor conversion to 12v
Quote:
Mostly I get my sons who are frequently in the US to pick up but time didn't permit.
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09-26-2018, 04:15 PM | #51 | |
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Re: question. simple starter motor conversion to 12v
Quote:
That's interesting. Their contact information for Quality Power indicates they are located in Yucaipa, CA, about 15 miles from my house! I might stop by and talk to them. David Serrano |
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09-26-2018, 05:50 PM | #52 |
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Re: question. simple starter motor conversion to 12v
Wow! I didn't notice that when I posted their link. I'm just a few miles myself.
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09-27-2018, 08:24 AM | #53 |
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Re: question. simple starter motor conversion to 12v
I once took a Pontiac starter apart that someone had cut some of the pole pieces off, trimmed both ends of each pole pieces a bit, and stuffed some plastic in to keep the windings centered. I imagine they were attempting to reduce the efficiency of the starter, by reducing the magnetic field. This would be wastful of battery amps I suppose, but would reduce the slam effect.
In thinking about it, I suppose you could also reduce a starters power output by rotating the end plate a bit one way or the other, so the brushes moved the armatures magnetic force to a less than optimal position, again, this would reduce power output, slow the speed, but not reduce the current draw, so this is not the "best" solution. However, if I was in Australia, I might be tempted to try one of those "outside the box" ideas rather than pony up for fast shipping if I was in a pinch. Just a thought...
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09-28-2018, 12:17 PM | #54 | |
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Re: question. simple starter motor conversion to 12v
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09-28-2018, 03:47 PM | #55 |
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Re: question. simple starter motor conversion to 12v
Thankyou all for your help. I value it.
I have a new field coil coming but regret not buying a whole new starter motor. But it's done now. thanks again, gary
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10-14-2018, 06:46 PM | #56 |
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Re: question. simple starter motor conversion to 12v
I took the starter to an old an versatile fellow who is jack of all trades and master of most. he was uncertain and endeavoured to seek help. however he came back without success, perhaps in fear of damaging it.
I ordered a 12V field coil from Snyders which I now have in my possession and will convert with that. I got various opinions on reducing slam by running power through bendix coil and amp meter showed no reduction nor resistance and auto electrician said it was bull shit. However I did try it and yes it did reduce somewhat but insufficient. Since all of that an A owner demonstrated his new type, made in UK which engaged prior to rotation. This was most impressive and I wish I had known about it prior to purchasing field coil. I thank you Corley for your input which has been received with gratitude and all others who likewise gave suggestion. gary.
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10-14-2018, 06:48 PM | #57 |
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Re: question. simple starter motor conversion to 12v
The starter I spoke about is what is illustrated by CarlG number 54 below.
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