The Ford Barn

MikeMort · 06-19-2012, 02:32 PM

Hi,
Spent the day struggling to install my newly assembled rear spring on my freshly panted frame. installed the lower spring leaf to the axles, and then proceeded to assemble the spring layer by layer, time consuming yes but it had to be done this way as I do not own a spring spreader.
Installing the spring to the frame was an awful job, as The nuts on the U-bolts had to be tightened up extremely hard to bring them up far enough to install the cotter pins. I only made it by using an extension bar on my 7/8 socket. Completely exhausted after this job, I realised too late that I had actually drawn the U-bolts down into the frame, compressing the frame under each U-bolt! Just curious if somebody has a comment on this, or any good advice to follow in my next restoration? thanks

pat in Santa Cruz · 06-19-2012, 04:14 PM

Did you ensure that the head of the center bolt was nesting in the cross member square hole? I am not sure if you are saying you drew the tops of the U bolts into the top of the frame, or if you drew the spring bars into the lower flange of the frame. In either case, it probably time to pull the rear end again and straighten out the frame. There are spring bars for different springs, some having as little as 8 leaves, 10 thin leaves and others having 10 thick leaves. If you are mixing various unmatched parts you will not reach the cotter holes or will go beyond them, depending on which you have. I have also seen V8 U bolts on A's, which are longer and you will over run the cotter holes with them, although that does not sound like your problem in this case. I recently used the cheaper repro front spring ( customer supplied) and found the stack is too thick to reach the cotter holes when the nuts are tight. That could be the case with your rear spring. I've never installed a repop rear spring so I do not know for certain regarding them.

Tom Endy · 06-19-2012, 06:45 PM

My advice to any Model A person is to buy a proper spring spreader. Somewhere down the road you may have to replace a clutch, rebuild the transmission, the bell housing, and you may even have to rebuild the rear end. You will need a spring spreader to do the job safely. The rear spring on a Model A is lethal. It can cause serious injury or even kill you.

Snyder carries the less expensive version of a very safe spring spreader for about $85. Most of the other suppliers carry a more expensive version that is equally as safe, it just has more bells and whistles that make it easier for one person to position it on the rear axle assembly. These go for about $135.

I have the cheaper version that I bought many years ago from Pete Weschler who owned AC&R, who I think is still making them and supplying them to the various suppliers. At the time the cheaper version was all he was making. If I was buying one today I would buy the more expensive one as they are easier to use. However, the one I have is perfectly safe and I have used it many many times.

Tom Endy

Mikeinnj · 06-19-2012, 09:29 PM

Many of the reproduction u-bolts are made too long and do not have cotter holes drilled in them. ....."Brattons" states "The supplier of these bolts made them extra long to also fit later cars. The extra length of the stud should be removed with a hacksaw then a hole cross drilled for a cotter pin. Need 2 bolts."....What a pain !

MikeMort · 06-19-2012, 10:52 PM

yes, I drew the u-bolts down into the top of the frame. Bolt centered nicely in hole, head of bolt up through hole. I had completely forgotten about the different types of rear spring, which might be the core of the problem (I do not remember now if it had cotter pins when I took it apart. I am restoring the car which has been sittingin a barn since 1965, it is my second restoration, we all have to learn.

pat in Santa Cruz · 06-19-2012, 11:41 PM

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Oh Yeah, I forgot to mention what Tom Endy did regarding using the right tool for the job. In a case like the rear spring, jury rigging it and risking your life is being penny wise and pound foolish. My neighbor tried to install one the way you did, one leaf at a time, and the shackle broke, sending leaves flying . Hes a very lucky man that nothing hit him. No one should press their luck with these things by trying to save a few bucks and disregarding the correct tools. You think a spreader is expensive, try a hospital. Or a mortuary.

as far as repairing the cross member, a photo of the damage to both sides of the cross member would help to determine if its serious or not. It might not be too hard to repair. In most cases its just time and effort.

MikeMort · 06-20-2012, 01:10 AM

Could anybody direct me to a good picture or drawing of the correct spring for my car ? (1930 Tudor). Top spring bar on my spring is just short enough to fit between the two U-bolts, is this correct? thanks

Tom Wesenberg · 06-20-2012, 04:25 AM

I don't have a picture, but the top leaf is very short. Marco has posted a spring chart several times showing which cars used which springs. I put grease around the outside of the spring pack where it slides into the frame. This sure helps to install and slide it left or right to position the bolt head into the frame hole.

Bob C · 06-20-2012, 11:41 AM

Here is Marco's spring chart. If I'm reading it right I think the letters refer to
the suffix of the spring part number so you wold use A.

Bob

06-19-2012, 02:32 PM	#1
MikeMort Junior Member Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 16	Spring woes Hi, Spent the day struggling to install my newly assembled rear spring on my freshly panted frame. installed the lower spring leaf to the axles, and then proceeded to assemble the spring layer by layer, time consuming yes but it had to be done this way as I do not own a spring spreader. Installing the spring to the frame was an awful job, as The nuts on the U-bolts had to be tightened up extremely hard to bring them up far enough to install the cotter pins. I only made it by using an extension bar on my 7/8 socket. Completely exhausted after this job, I realised too late that I had actually drawn the U-bolts down into the frame, compressing the frame under each U-bolt! Just curious if somebody has a comment on this, or any good advice to follow in my next restoration? thanks

06-19-2012, 04:14 PM	#2
pat in Santa Cruz Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: santa cruz, calif Posts: 2,011	Re: Spring woes Did you ensure that the head of the center bolt was nesting in the cross member square hole? I am not sure if you are saying you drew the tops of the U bolts into the top of the frame, or if you drew the spring bars into the lower flange of the frame. In either case, it probably time to pull the rear end again and straighten out the frame. There are spring bars for different springs, some having as little as 8 leaves, 10 thin leaves and others having 10 thick leaves. If you are mixing various unmatched parts you will not reach the cotter holes or will go beyond them, depending on which you have. I have also seen V8 U bolts on A's, which are longer and you will over run the cotter holes with them, although that does not sound like your problem in this case. I recently used the cheaper repro front spring ( customer supplied) and found the stack is too thick to reach the cotter holes when the nuts are tight. That could be the case with your rear spring. I've never installed a repop rear spring so I do not know for certain regarding them.

06-19-2012, 06:45 PM	#3
Tom Endy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern California Posts: 3,131	Re: Spring woes My advice to any Model A person is to buy a proper spring spreader. Somewhere down the road you may have to replace a clutch, rebuild the transmission, the bell housing, and you may even have to rebuild the rear end. You will need a spring spreader to do the job safely. The rear spring on a Model A is lethal. It can cause serious injury or even kill you. Snyder carries the less expensive version of a very safe spring spreader for about $85. Most of the other suppliers carry a more expensive version that is equally as safe, it just has more bells and whistles that make it easier for one person to position it on the rear axle assembly. These go for about $135. I have the cheaper version that I bought many years ago from Pete Weschler who owned AC&R, who I think is still making them and supplying them to the various suppliers. At the time the cheaper version was all he was making. If I was buying one today I would buy the more expensive one as they are easier to use. However, the one I have is perfectly safe and I have used it many many times. Tom Endy

06-19-2012, 09:29 PM	#4
Mikeinnj Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Northern New Jersey Posts: 1,262	Re: Spring woes Many of the reproduction u-bolts are made too long and do not have cotter holes drilled in them. ....."Brattons" states "The supplier of these bolts made them extra long to also fit later cars. The extra length of the stud should be removed with a hacksaw then a hole cross drilled for a cotter pin. Need 2 bolts."....What a pain !

06-19-2012, 10:52 PM	#5
MikeMort Junior Member Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 16	Re: Spring woes yes, I drew the u-bolts down into the top of the frame. Bolt centered nicely in hole, head of bolt up through hole. I had completely forgotten about the different types of rear spring, which might be the core of the problem (I do not remember now if it had cotter pins when I took it apart. I am restoring the car which has been sittingin a barn since 1965, it is my second restoration, we all have to learn.

06-19-2012, 11:41 PM	#6
pat in Santa Cruz Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: santa cruz, calif Posts: 2,011	Re: Spring woes Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Oh Yeah, I forgot to mention what Tom Endy did regarding using the right tool for the job. In a case like the rear spring, jury rigging it and risking your life is being penny wise and pound foolish. My neighbor tried to install one the way you did, one leaf at a time, and the shackle broke, sending leaves flying . Hes a very lucky man that nothing hit him. No one should press their luck with these things by trying to save a few bucks and disregarding the correct tools. You think a spreader is expensive, try a hospital. Or a mortuary. as far as repairing the cross member, a photo of the damage to both sides of the cross member would help to determine if its serious or not. It might not be too hard to repair. In most cases its just time and effort.

06-20-2012, 01:10 AM	#7
MikeMort Junior Member Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 16	Re: Spring woes Could anybody direct me to a good picture or drawing of the correct spring for my car ? (1930 Tudor). Top spring bar on my spring is just short enough to fit between the two U-bolts, is this correct? thanks

06-20-2012, 04:25 AM	#8
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Spring woes I don't have a picture, but the top leaf is very short. Marco has posted a spring chart several times showing which cars used which springs. I put grease around the outside of the spring pack where it slides into the frame. This sure helps to install and slide it left or right to position the bolt head into the frame hole.