How much alcohol

[Henry's Lady's Man]

Hi, T People! I am crossing lines here from the Model A side for a little advice. Since I have a possible head issue, where I might be getting a little hydrocarbon gas bubbling into my cooling system, I was getting a frothing of my antifreeze mix. This caused my radiator to lose liquid by frothing over through the overflow tube.

My solution was to run pure distilled water. It solved the problem. I really don't want to pull the head yet and put a new gasket. (No, I'm not getting water in my oil, but thanks for asking).

Since it is winter, I would like to add alcohol to the distilled water for a coolant mix, and to lower the freeze point/temperature.

SO MY QUESTION IS: HOW MUCH ALCOHOL SHOULD I ADD, LIKE IN THE "MODEL T" DAYS TO ACHIEVE THIS? I'm certain there is a range, both for efficacy and for range of freeze protection.

I could easily obtain the alcohol from leaching it from the cheapo corn gas with water and a good shake. This would serve two purposes... 'free' alcohol from the crap gas, and rendering pure gasoline for the engine.

Any thoughts from the local wizards will be appreciated by this humble "A" cousin. ~Chuck

[Jack Innes]

Alcohol was used as antifreeze with considerable trouble. The alcohol evaporates quickly & weakens the mixture so frequent checking & topping up is required, even if the car is not being run much.

In your situation I would drain the water when frost is expected & keep it clean & inside LIKE IN THE "MODEL T" DAYS . In the end it would be safer & probably less bother than messing with the alcohol.

Here in Canada it was/is not unheard of to keep the water on the stove & put it back in the T hot - the chance of starting the engine at 20 below is much greater with some heat in the block.

[tinman080]

park it over the manure pile, that was done in the old days.....

[Henry's Lady's Man]

Thanx for the responses.

[CharlieB]

Doesn't sound like a good idea. They stopped doing for a reason too back then. Easiest? Drain it.

[Royce P]

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Just use ethylene glycol / water mixture for best results and no corrosion.

Alcohol is hygroscopic, it will enhance and cause extensive corrosion through the entire cooling system. A very poor choice given the existence of modern (post -1917) anti freeze.

[40 Deluxe]

Methanol (not ethanol) antifreeze was common up through the sixties, as I remember. It came in gallon cans that you opened with a 'churchkey' and was dyed purple. I believe it had additives to make it a better antifreeze; wasn't just plain methanol............ Now I'm curious, will have to research this, see what I've forgotten.

[Kurt in NJ]

You should look in the model A service bulletins ---it depends on what temp you want to protect to ---
from the service bulletins-(page288)
for 20 below --50% water, 50% alcohol, specific gravity of mixture--.9345

you need an alcohol hydrometer if you drive the car to add as you boil it off---keep it under 160 or so and you won't have to add as much

[Henry's Lady's Man]

I appreciate all the input. I knew nothing about the Methanol vs Ethanol, nor the corrosive effects of hygroscopic effects. This is why I asked. I get these hair-brained schemes, and then run it by somebody.
Again, the "conventional green" is frothing up in my water pump impeller apparently (even small amounts) and shouldn't, unless, as someone suggested, I was getting some hydrocarbon blow-thru from the head gasket. That is probable. I simply was investigating my options and THOUGHT I found a good fix... I guess not.
I thought the ONLY reason they got away from alcohol was the lower boiling temp effect.

Meanwhile, I have drained my water during the NM nights in the teens. My garage is not finished and it gets in the mid 20's there. It's just a PITA to drain and refill all the time.
Also, I have used "Water Wetter", since I thought the frothing was from boiling, but REALLY, my car does not overheat.

Thanks Y'all for the input!

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by Henry's Lady's Man

I appreciate all the input. I knew nothing about the Methanol vs Ethanol, nor the corrosive effects of hygroscopic effects. This is why I asked. I get these hair-brained schemes, and then run it by somebody.
Again, the "conventional green" is frothing up in my water pump impeller apparently (even small amounts) and shouldn't, unless, as someone suggested, I was getting some hydrocarbon blow-thru from the head gasket. That is probable. I simply was investigating my options and THOUGHT I found a good fix... I guess not.
I thought the ONLY reason they got away from alcohol was the lower boiling temp effect.

Thanks Y'all for the input!

In searching the topic of methanol antifreeze I found a 1935 Chevrolet Service Manual on using alcohol antifreeze that said to check the water pump packing as air could be drawn past loose packing and cause foaming. Maybe that's part of your problem.

[trainguy]

Why not address the "head issues" on a A or T not much of a job.

[Henry's Lady's Man]

Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe

In searching the topic of methanol antifreeze I found a 1935 Chevrolet Service Manual on using alcohol antifreeze that said to check the water pump packing as air could be drawn past loose packing and cause foaming. Maybe that's part of your problem.

Thanx, 40 Deluxe. Though I put new packing recently, and it does not leak, I did not consider air getting IN. I could give it a quarter turn. I was surprised to see it in-use in 1935, so it must have had SOME bit of a following.

[tmodelman]

Old day's formula before ethylene glycol in the attached chart.

Bubbles coming up in the radiator, bad head gasket, or worse, crack in the water jacket.

[40 Deluxe]

NAPA sells a "Block Check" kit for diagnosing combustion gases in the radiator. It uses a liquid that changes color if combustion gases are present.

[Henry's Lady's Man]

Originally Posted by tmodelman

Old day's formula before ethylene glycol in the attached chart.

Bubbles coming up in the radiator, bad head gasket, or worse, crack in the water jacket.

Thanx for the cool chart. I will wait till warmer weather to change the head gasket. My garage is too cold now and it's dark when I get home.
I think that is the problem. I get some very minor bubbles (almost imperceptible) around one of the spark plug thread insert where it meets the head... not the plug thread itself. It's gotta be water.

[Henry's Lady's Man]

Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe

NAPA sells a "Block Check" kit for diagnosing combustion gases in the radiator. It uses a liquid that changes color if combustion gases are present.

Thanx, I will invest in NAPA's "Block Check" kit. I think proper diagnostics is key, before tearing into anything.