The Ford Barn

Mer · 11-17-2023, 08:22 AM

I’ve trying to figure out what fluid to use in my transmission, banjo and Borg Warner Ovedrive. I understand that I can’t mix fluids as the three share oil passages. The trans and banjo call for 600 W oil while the Borg Warner OD manual recommends GL1 (straight mineral oil). Afraid of using GL1 in the trans and rear and concerned that the 600 W in the Borg Warner OD will be too thick and hinder or make inoperable? What to do? What are others using?

hudguy · 11-17-2023, 10:01 AM

I use the same as in the rear end and the transmission

The Master Cylinder · 11-17-2023, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mer

I’ve trying to figure out what fluid to use in my transmission, banjo and Borg Warner Ovedrive. I understand that I can’t mix fluids as the three share oil passages. The trans and banjo call for 600 W oil while the Borg Warner OD manual recommends GL1 (straight mineral oil). Afraid of using GL1 in the trans and rear and concerned that the 600 W in the Borg Warner OD will be too thick and hinder or make inoperable? What to do? What are others using?

I'm not familiar with the Borg Warner O/D. Please explain how the three share oil. I'm always looking to learn something new.

I still have a few KB left to fill in the memory banks.

Mer · 11-17-2023, 10:51 AM

Just reading through other related blogs that is what was indicated. However, Tom Endy article indicates that there is a front and rear seal in the OD unit that should contain the lube/oil.

So that's about all i know. Not much help.

Mer · 11-17-2023, 10:53 AM

So you put the 600 w in the Borg Warner OD, rear and trans. Does the heavy oil effect the warm up time of the BW OD? In other words, does it take 10 to 20 minutes before the OD engagee (until the oil is warmed up)?

Thanks, Mike

Tom Endy · 11-17-2023, 11:23 AM

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One of the disadvantages to the Borg Warner modifications of the day for a Model A was the seal used at the rear of the BW was not an oil seal, it was the standard grease seal originally used in the Model A for the drive shaft and axle shafts. It was common for the BW oil to migrate through the seal into the differential. You had to check it every 400-500 miles and add oil to the BW and drain some out of the banjo.

One BW builder of the time recommended using a 30-40 weight motor oil in the BW. The Model A transmission and differential uses a 600W oil. Use of a heavier oil in the BW slows down the shifting process, especially when it is cold.

Tom Endy

Gene F · 11-17-2023, 11:50 AM

My B/W was put together by Llloyd Young. Lloyd told me to check it annually, and use 90W rear end grease. it warms up fairly quick. Never had any problems.

Mer · 11-17-2023, 02:45 PM

Thank you both for your valuable input

rotorwrench · 11-17-2023, 06:16 PM

GL4 for the OD unit. The recommendation in my Lincoln Mercury O/H manual was mild EP. GL3 was mild back then and GL4 replaced that. SAE 85/90 GL4 would be good. Stay-Lube is available. The unit has an overrunning clutch that can be damaged by high EP lubes.

Mer · 11-26-2023, 07:51 PM

The BW OD does not work at all. The relay and solenoid work fine. I have the option 2 set up per Les Andrew’s book, by/passing the governor.
With T Handle pushed (engaged) the car does NOT freewheel. The BW manual refers to procedure when lockout T handle not functioning. Just wondering if any experienced the same?

Gene F · 11-26-2023, 08:13 PM

If it will not freewheel it will not drop in. Are you sure the freewheelling arm is going far enough? It's either that or the prong is not moving the gizmo inside because it's not slipped over it.
Something simple.

Mer · 11-27-2023, 07:01 PM

The T cable appears to be moving the arm on the borg Warner unit from one stop to the other. The solenoid was sucked in during the install procedure so I know that is correct

Mer · 11-27-2023, 07:03 PM

Possible the prong is not fully engaged and requires manual adjustment (rotating driveshaft in neutral)as described in BW manual

40cpe · 11-28-2023, 11:53 AM

If the overdrive unit was allowed to run low on lubricant, the ring/sun gears will lock up with a bang. This will result in no free-wheeling and no overdrive. It sounds like a tear-down and inspection is in order.

Gene F · 11-28-2023, 02:03 PM

Mer, don't open it up except as a last resort. Another thing, once you open it up you need to have a source to deal with whatever, or supply you with needed parts. The thing is very likely to fall apart in your hands.

Mer · 12-06-2023, 01:16 PM

Tom,

We have a '31 Model A with a BW OD (R-10).

I believe the solenoid and relay work fine.

The OD does not function.

The car does not go into freewheel when the T lockout handle is pushed in (and switch is off). The lockout lever seems to move to easy on the side of the overdrive. I have read the BW user manual over and they suggest a potential fix for this issue (without pulling the OD unit out). I have read the numerous articles you have published. Unfortunately, no one in the NJ Model A club has too much knowledge about BW OD's. Hoping you and I can have a brief call to get your thoughts. So sorry for the intrusion. I'm located in NJ and my number is 908-247-1637, I can call you at your convenience?
Sincerly appreciate your efforts.

Regards, Mike Rosenberg

11-17-2023, 08:22 AM	#1
Mer Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: NJ Posts: 9	Borg Warner Overdrive in a ‘31 Model A I’ve trying to figure out what fluid to use in my transmission, banjo and Borg Warner Ovedrive. I understand that I can’t mix fluids as the three share oil passages. The trans and banjo call for 600 W oil while the Borg Warner OD manual recommends GL1 (straight mineral oil). Afraid of using GL1 in the trans and rear and concerned that the 600 W in the Borg Warner OD will be too thick and hinder or make inoperable? What to do? What are others using?

11-17-2023, 10:01 AM	#2
hudguy Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2023 Posts: 1	Re: Borg Warner Overdrive in a ‘31 Model A I use the same as in the rear end and the transmission

11-17-2023, 10:51 AM	#4
Mer Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: NJ Posts: 9	Re: Borg Warner Overdrive in a ‘31 Model A Just reading through other related blogs that is what was indicated. However, Tom Endy article indicates that there is a front and rear seal in the OD unit that should contain the lube/oil. So that's about all i know. Not much help.

11-17-2023, 10:53 AM	#5
Mer Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: NJ Posts: 9	Re: Borg Warner Overdrive in a ‘31 Model A So you put the 600 w in the Borg Warner OD, rear and trans. Does the heavy oil effect the warm up time of the BW OD? In other words, does it take 10 to 20 minutes before the OD engagee (until the oil is warmed up)? Thanks, Mike

11-17-2023, 11:23 AM	#6
Tom Endy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern California Posts: 3,131	Re: Borg Warner Overdrive in a ‘31 Model A Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) One of the disadvantages to the Borg Warner modifications of the day for a Model A was the seal used at the rear of the BW was not an oil seal, it was the standard grease seal originally used in the Model A for the drive shaft and axle shafts. It was common for the BW oil to migrate through the seal into the differential. You had to check it every 400-500 miles and add oil to the BW and drain some out of the banjo. One BW builder of the time recommended using a 30-40 weight motor oil in the BW. The Model A transmission and differential uses a 600W oil. Use of a heavier oil in the BW slows down the shifting process, especially when it is cold. Tom Endy

11-17-2023, 11:50 AM	#7
Gene F Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,975	Re: Borg Warner Overdrive in a ‘31 Model A My B/W was put together by Llloyd Young. Lloyd told me to check it annually, and use 90W rear end grease. it warms up fairly quick. Never had any problems.

11-17-2023, 02:45 PM	#8
Mer Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: NJ Posts: 9	Re: Borg Warner Overdrive in a ‘31 Model A Thank you both for your valuable input

11-17-2023, 06:16 PM	#9
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,440	Re: Borg Warner Overdrive in a ‘31 Model A GL4 for the OD unit. The recommendation in my Lincoln Mercury O/H manual was mild EP. GL3 was mild back then and GL4 replaced that. SAE 85/90 GL4 would be good. Stay-Lube is available. The unit has an overrunning clutch that can be damaged by high EP lubes.

11-26-2023, 07:51 PM	#10
Mer Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: NJ Posts: 9	Re: Borg Warner Overdrive in a ‘31 Model A The BW OD does not work at all. The relay and solenoid work fine. I have the option 2 set up per Les Andrew’s book, by/passing the governor. With T Handle pushed (engaged) the car does NOT freewheel. The BW manual refers to procedure when lockout T handle not functioning. Just wondering if any experienced the same?

11-26-2023, 08:13 PM	#11
Gene F Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,975	Re: Borg Warner Overdrive in a ‘31 Model A If it will not freewheel it will not drop in. Are you sure the freewheelling arm is going far enough? It's either that or the prong is not moving the gizmo inside because it's not slipped over it. Something simple. Last edited by Gene F; 11-26-2023 at 08:19 PM.

11-27-2023, 07:01 PM	#12
Mer Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: NJ Posts: 9	Re: Borg Warner Overdrive in a ‘31 Model A The T cable appears to be moving the arm on the borg Warner unit from one stop to the other. The solenoid was sucked in during the install procedure so I know that is correct

11-27-2023, 07:03 PM	#13
Mer Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: NJ Posts: 9	Re: Borg Warner Overdrive in a ‘31 Model A Possible the prong is not fully engaged and requires manual adjustment (rotating driveshaft in neutral)as described in BW manual

11-28-2023, 11:53 AM	#14
40cpe Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Star, MS Posts: 4,024	Re: Borg Warner Overdrive in a ‘31 Model A If the overdrive unit was allowed to run low on lubricant, the ring/sun gears will lock up with a bang. This will result in no free-wheeling and no overdrive. It sounds like a tear-down and inspection is in order.

11-28-2023, 02:03 PM	#15
Gene F Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,975	Re: Borg Warner Overdrive in a ‘31 Model A Mer, don't open it up except as a last resort. Another thing, once you open it up you need to have a source to deal with whatever, or supply you with needed parts. The thing is very likely to fall apart in your hands.

12-06-2023, 01:16 PM	#16
Mer Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: NJ Posts: 9	Re: Borg Warner Overdrive in a ‘31 Model A Tom, We have a '31 Model A with a BW OD (R-10). I believe the solenoid and relay work fine. The OD does not function. The car does not go into freewheel when the T lockout handle is pushed in (and switch is off). The lockout lever seems to move to easy on the side of the overdrive. I have read the BW user manual over and they suggest a potential fix for this issue (without pulling the OD unit out). I have read the numerous articles you have published. Unfortunately, no one in the NJ Model A club has too much knowledge about BW OD's. Hoping you and I can have a brief call to get your thoughts. So sorry for the intrusion. I'm located in NJ and my number is 908-247-1637, I can call you at your convenience? Sincerly appreciate your efforts. Regards, Mike Rosenberg