running with no thermostats

[Flathead Fever]

The engine will last longer if it operates at a constant temperature, The parts are not expanding and contracting and changing their clearances. A fully opened thermostat will easily flow enough coolant for a good radiator to remove the heat and the flatheads have two of them, where all the other V8s only have one.

[Don T]

Perhaps I could provide more info on the discussion on thermostats; it seems that all stats perform well based on temperature alone, however has anyone considered the issue of flow or volume passing a wide open thermostat, My experience follows, new clean engine, new NAPA stats (160), the rad burped on a drive on a hot day. One stat had not opened, stuck I assume, I replaced with the original 170 stat that came with the truck. It was better, still ran to warm though. I had had overheating problems pulling a trailer so I decide to match up the stats and put all new stats in. I compared at wide open, the opening size of (for flow) the original Ford stats versus the new one I had installed (160) It looked like at wide open condition the opening of the original stat volume was about double that of the new replacement. I installed all new high flow stats and my temps did definitely drop, however this needs to be confirmed on a real hot day. This is just further info on the never ending flathead overheating discussion.

[ford38v8]

Originally Posted by Krylon32

I tried no stats in the first 59AB I had built/ The motor tended to run hot which I attributed to the water moving to fast thru the radiator. I installed stats and the motor ran cooler at a more manageable temp.

I just knew we'd get here eventually.

[mfirth]

My 8BA had 160s in it when I got the car and ran hot. I replaced them with180s and it ran 180 to 190 in any weather. Tried it without stats and it ran hot on hot days & cold on cooler days. .02 cents or nonsense, you choose......

[ronn]

this topic is akin to synthetic vs standard motor oil. we all have our own experiences and opinions.

not much diff then politics. we know what we know......

I had a buddy who had over 30 years of ASE experience. He sold me his taurus, which always ran hot. Told me I couldnt remove the thermo to cool it down, because the computer wouldnt let the engine run. I removed the thermo, it ran 10 degrees cooler and told him to hop in. Lets go for a ride.
sometimes thats just how it works out. Yes, running cooler may not always be better- but many times it is.

[pistonbroke]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

I wish I had a part number or a photo of one but back in the 80's I was doing a complete rebuild of a 46 Lincoln V12 to put in my 38 Zephyr. It had thermostats in the upper hoses like a pre 48 V8 ford. They did not look like a normal stat. They had 2" brass fingers so to speak that ran down the hose to hold them in the correct position/orientation and the opening was larger then any I have ever seen. I always look for them at swaps and flea markets but no luck as of yet. I believe there is a flow issue with some of the off shore units I see these days and if it wont stay seated properly anyway , you have a problem. As for burping coolant , don't over fill the radiator, just above the upper hose port on the top tank should be adequate in most cases. You should also let it cool down before shutting down. Just my two cents, Tim

[marko39]

My first car a 59 ford never ran hot but we were under the impression that cool was better and would remove the stat for the summer. I remember seeing the milky oil on the dipstick and wondered what caused it.

[tubman]

I think that there may be a problem with currently available thermostats (probably made off-shore) similar to the problem with current condensers.

Poor design and quality.

[collinrestores]

I've been running no thermostats in my '36 since last summer, but only because that was one of the things I tried to keep it cool before I had the radiator recored. New radiator + Thermocure in the water jackets for several days got it cooling much better, but still overheated on occasion. Now in the winter it easily stays at 160, but at some point I'll probably experiment with thermostats again.

Not sure whether the generic 160 degree thermostats I bought will work well. I will have to trim them down to fit the upper hoses. I'm sure the original Ford thermostats were designed in a particular way to have the correct flow.

[Flathead Fever]

Originally Posted by ronn

this topic is akin to synthetic vs standard motor oil. we all have our own experiences and opinions.

not much diff then politics. we know what we know......

I had a buddy who had over 30 years of ASE experience. He sold me his taurus, which always ran hot. Told me I couldnt remove the thermo to cool it down, because the computer wouldnt let the engine run. I removed the thermo, it ran 10 degrees cooler and told him to hop in. Lets go for a ride.
sometimes thats just how it works out. Yes, running cooler may not always be better- but many times it is.

I was 30-year ASE Master mechanic, ASE Heavy Truck Master Mechanic, ASE CNG Mechanic, ASE Parts Specialist and a couple more. For one thing, any idiot can go get a study guide and go pass those tests, they do not make you a "Master Mechanic". I was also a licensed Smog Tech. I was also contractor with the State of CA, helping write the smog test questions for the smog license. The computer-controlled cars have to reach operating temperature for the computer to go into "closed loop". That is when it is taking in info from the input sensors and making adjustments to the fuel and timing. If it does not reach operating temperature, because of a stuck open or incorrect thermostat, it will set a code and turn on the light. The engine will run okay but the computer will not be fine tuning the fuel ratio based off of the oxygen sensor. An engine emits more emissions when it is "not" at the designed operating temperature and if cannot go into closed loop it will get poor fuel mileage. The kid at the parts store will ask you if you want a 160,180- or 192-degree thermostat. The catalog does not say which one was original equipment for you vehicle. If you install the 160 on a modern engine, you're going to have a check engine light and poor fuel mileage The manufacturers want the new cars running close to 200 degrees. A flathead driven on warm

We had a fleet of 400 vehicles, some of them they kept for twenty-years. I saw a lot of heating problems over the 30-years. I found way more thermostats that failed for sticking open than closed. We had a steep hill by the shop we used for road tests. If a vehicle's temp was okay driving on the flat ground but would overheat climbing that hill, it was almost a plugged radiator. If we suspected a thermostat, we would heat up water in the boss's coffee cup to see if the thermostat would open. If we were replacing the radiator, we always replace all the hoses and the thermostat. Green 50/50 coolant needs to be changed every two-years and nobody does it.

The two vehicles with cooling problems issues that kicked my butt. One was where the impeller on a new water pump was slipping. The other was an F-800 that I had diagnosed the radiator as being plugged and sent it out for a new core. They re-cored it and it still overheated. I replaced everything associated with the cooling system and it still overheated climbing the test hill. We used two different radiator venders. I was at the other shop run by an old-timer. I was dropping off another radiator and I asked him about the F-800 radiator. He said, did they use the small tube or big tube core? That was the problem. Never assume that a new part is okay. We had a lot of new thermostats that would fail to open. We always tested the new ones first in hot water with an infrared thermometer. You never know what has been done to these old cars. But you know they came from the factory "not" overheating. If you start changing the original design from the factory, you're not fixing not problem.

My dad said every summer they would tow a trailer from North Dakota to CA, across the 100-degree desert with an almost new '53 Merc and it never overheated.

[aussie merc]

here we go again this has been around the track more times than pharlap; basically an engine is designed to operate in a specific temperature range and thats the thermostat job! Without going into a discussion that could be used as a thesis for a degree in HYDRO THERMO DYNAMICS . Henry didnt do anything that cost money he didnt need to and as a rule they all left the factory WITH thermostats . So if its overheating somethings wrong or your trying to operate the vehicle outside its design. Down here in Aus they run hot. Why we are to close to the equator and they dont have enough cooling capacity in reserve [in winter no problem in summer you have to watch that gauge and drive to suit ] So for what its woth my 2 cents worth is run thermostats onl trick is the temp range and how big the hole [Flow] is when they open.

[47topless]

The original post simply asked why the PO of the car was running the engine without thermostats. The reasons for running with thermostats seem rather obvious.

[Jacques1960]

No stats on my ‘36; runs just right with Skip’s rebuilt pumps. Who knows. I live in Maine, but never drive after Halloween, by which time, traditionally, roads have salt / grit. YMMV.

[aussie merc]

curiosity question? Does anyone know the dia of the valve [hole] in an early 24 stud [center outlet] butterfly style thermostats as factory fitted .

[baceves]

My 47 Ford doesn't have thermostats and is running great and fortunately never had an overheating problem in the 35 years I've owned it. As i started to get more educated on the subject i was going to add them around 15 years ago but i said to myself why should I if my car has never had a problem.

[47topless]

Originally Posted by baceves

My 47 Ford doesn't have thermostats and is running great and fortunately never had an overheating problem in the 35 years I've owned it. As i started to get more educated on the subject i was going to add them around 15 years ago but i said to myself why should I if my car has never had a problem.

And there you have it.

[tubman]

Not entirely. The problem with not running thermostats is not overheating; it is running too cold with the attendant sludge and premature wear problems. Admittedly, the great majority of us do not drive our vehicles enough miles for this to become a serious problem, but it's there.

[47topless]

Originally Posted by tubman

Not entirely. The problem with not running thermostats is not overheating; it is running to cold with the attendant sludge and premature wear problems. Admittedly, the great majority of us do not drive our vehicles enough miles for this to become a problem, but it's there.

Now that is a very good reason to try and make the stats work in your car.
In my case, I know that the engine runs fine without them, and that I will never know why the PO was running without, but, it seems like a good idea to go ahead and install a pair and see what happens.
This was a good discussion. Thanks to all for your input.
Phil

[mcgarrett]

tubman is right. Thermostats stabilize the coolant to the desired operating temperature for the engine so as to help alleviate the formation of sludge, allow proper oil pressure and flow to vital areas of the engine, and to help atomize fuel for a more efficient burn and less carbon deposits. Quoting an old hot rodder..."heat is horsepower".

[Ken Henry]

I convinced myself long ago that my flathead ran cooler with high flow thermostats. Mr Gasket makes some that fit the 8BA. Thermostats are nice because your oil warms up quicker, burning off fuel contamination that gets past the rings into the oil (especially when cold).