292 312 Ford Engine

[ncauclair]

Hi
I have a 292 312 engine. It has a serial number on an original manifold as follows " ECE-9431-8 8 An odd looking "C" symbol with another symbol inside the C and a 4E 26. Anyone have any idea what year Ford the engine came out of? Also where would an engine number be located. Thanks Nick

[40cpe]

The chart in this link shows the manifold to be from a '55 or '56 272" engine.
http://www.y-block.info/casting/exhaust.html

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by ncauclair

Hi
I have a 292 312 engine. It has a serial number on an original manifold as follows " ECE-9431-8 8 An odd looking "C" symbol with another symbol inside the C and a 4E 26. Anyone have any idea what year Ford the engine came out of? Also where would an engine number be located. Thanks Nick

The various parts of an engine (like that exhaust manifold) have their own casting numbers.
Some parts were used on different year & displacement engines and the casting numbers could carry on for a couple years until Ford saw the need to change them.
Not to mention parts from 'wherever' being swapped around in the 60+ years since then.
A misc info and casting number link...
http://www.y-block.info/main.html

The casting number on the engine block itself is the one to look for.

Originally Posted by ncauclair

... where would an engine number be located. ...

There may be three different locations depending on the year and foundry.
Go to the "Block Identification" tab (with a few photos) at this link...
http://ford-y-block.com/technical.htm

The "CF" symbol is for the Cleveland Foundry, as opposed to the Dearborn Industrial Foundry "DIF".

The "4E 26" is the date code of when the part was made, 4 = '54, E = May, and 26 would be the 26th day of the month. IIRC
.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by ncauclair

I have a 292 312 engine.

It has a serial number on an original manifold as follows ECE-9431-8 8

That will be found in the offered EXH MAN Casting I.D. CHART - ECE-9431-B

An odd looking "C" symbol with another symbol inside the C and a 4E26

The first identifies it as being cast at the CLEVELAND FOUNDRY and the second the DATE of CASTING.

The CASTING ID NO. identifies the EXH MAN as being a 272CI.

[ncauclair]

Wow. A great brain bank of knowledge. Thanks for all the info. So it's not a 292 312-- it's a 272. Cool. Big thanks.

[ncauclair]

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thanks so much for the info. Cheers Nick

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by ncauclair

... So it's not a 292 312-- it's a 272. Cool. Big thanks.

Did you find the actual engine block number? It will be 3 letters usually followed by '6015'.
Those ECE exhaust manifolds will bolt on to almost any other Y-block engine thru '64.

A 272 will have the letters "ECG" on the block, usually at the base of the distributor. Also the 'DIF' symbol.
.

[ncauclair]

Can't find any symbols on the block??

[darrell]

look above the oil filter.

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by ncauclair

Can't find any symbols on the block??

Upside down on the outside of cyl #1 just above the block drain petcock?
.

[all american boy]

It can be bored out .060" to make it a 292.


Those are heavy engines.


What tranny do you have with it?


If it is a manual that is a good thing.


The automatics were god awful heavy because it was cast iron case with cast



iron bellhousing.


Good thing if it has a 4 barrel carb and intake manifold already on it.


Hang on to that engine even if you just store it under tarp.


They do not grow on trees anymore.

[svmsr1044]

What is a ECZ 9425B intake manifold?

[darrell]

57 4 bbl.

[scicala]

Originally Posted by svmsr1044

What is a ECZ 9425B intake manifold?

It's also the best one for performance that came from the factory. There are better aluminum ones available too.


Sal

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by svmsr1044

What is a ECZ 9425B intake manifold?

Originally Posted by darrell

57 4 bbl.

Originally Posted by scicala

It's also the best one for performance that came from the factory. ...

It accepts the larger bolt pattern '57+ 4bbl carburetors and has slightly larger / better flowing passages than the earlier 4bbl versions. (ECZ-A, ECB-B & EBY-D)

[bobss396]

Originally Posted by ncauclair

Wow. A great brain bank of knowledge. Thanks for all the info. So it's not a 292 312-- it's a 272. Cool. Big thanks.

Like every Chevy engine for sale is out of a Corvette... any Y-block for sale is a 312.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

That will be found in the offered EXH MAN Casting I.D. CHART - ECE-9431-B

The first identifies it as being cast at the CLEVELAND FOUNDRY and the second the DATE of CASTING.

The CASTING ID NO. identifies the EXH MAN as being a 272CI.

Originally Posted by ncauclair

Wow. A great brain bank of knowledge. Thanks for all the info. So it's not a 292 312-- it's a 272. Cool. Big thanks.

It (ECE-9431-B ) identifies that particular EXH MAN only. You need to ID the rest of the components to actually know what you have. It just might be a 312 under there.

Too much guessing and too little fact.

[ncauclair]

I took a photo of the number on the block below the distributor. Had the Cleveland symbol and a 35 number. I tried to post the engine photos here but it won't let me????

[ncauclair]

Found it below the distributor-- a Cleveland symbol and a 35 number? Tried to post a photo but site wouldn't let me?

[KULTULZ]

What was the letter code? 35 is the CASTING MOLD NO used.

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by ncauclair

I took a photo of the number on the block below the distributor. ... I tried to post the engine photos here but it won't let me????

The "file size" of the photo has to be less than 2mb, to be able to upload it.

.

[darrell]

its a 292 at least maybe 312

[darrell]

just forget that last one 272 can be dif or cf its 292 and 312 that are cf only.

[streetdreams]

There is a letter/number cast into the side of the block above the oil pan rail. If you see ECZ-xxxx-A or C, there is a good chance it is a 312. The only way for sure is to look on the crank flange for a flat spot with a dot in the center. Then it is a 312. Ford made both 292's and 312's on that same block in the last years of the 312, just machined the main bores to a larger size for 312's. John Mummerts website shows and explains all this in greater detail.

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by streetdreams

... The only way for sure is to look on the crank flange for a flat spot with a dot in the center. Then it is a 312. Ford made both 292's and 312's on that same block in the last years of the 312, just machined the main bores to a larger size for 312's. John Mummerts website shows and explains all this in greater detail.

The dot on a 312 crankshaft, as streetdreams mentioned. (photo 1)
Main bearing caps for a 312 have an ECZ prefix casting number. All others are EBU.

Two links to the *ID a 312* pages on John Mummerts website...
http://ford-y-block.com/identify312.htm
http://ford-y-block.com/crankshaftid.htm

[ncauclair]

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I've been trying to post a photo of the engine. But it says my security token is missing? Dumb guy--don't know what that means. The photo isn't large MB?

[dmsfrr]

If you can send the photo to [email protected] I'll try to post it for you.
But it may a bit... I'm fairly busy today cleaning out a space in the garage for a car I'm leaving town to pick up tomorrow.

[40cpe]

Send it to [email protected] and I can get to it quickly.

[40cpe]

here are the pics.They were between 4.5 and 8.5 MB

[streetdreams]

Still cannot determine engine size. The cross over exhaust is early, but I've seen 312 long blocks under that old exhaust and lifter galley covers.

[darrell]

didnt know it was a truck engine.from what you can see its a 292 but things could be changed around.

[40cpe]

Originally Posted by darrell

.from what you can see its a 292

What do you see that leads you to think it is a 292?

[ncauclair]

thanks for posting the photos-you're more computer savvy than I. I'm listing the engine for sale. What's a fair price? Part it out or as a whole? I live in Greenville VA. I have a couple of Ford trucks a 62 and 64 F 100s. Picked this engine up to put into the 62-- but we ended up rebuilding the one was that in it.

[KULTULZ]

I'm listing the engine for sale. What's a fair price? Part it out or as a whole?

That's going to be hard to determine until the engine is identified.

Where is Greenville, VA?

[ncauclair]

Near Lexington and Staunton VA off of I 81. In the Shenandoah valley.

[scicala]

I can take a guess from the pictures, but a block and head casting number would help a lot. Heads are '56 or later. The distributor is '57 or later. Rocker arm adjusting nuts are '57 or later. The front cover has two flat machined bosses on top (I think that's truck ?).
If I guessed, I would say it's a truck 292 from '58 to the early 60's. Plus pretty sure they stopped building 272's after 1957.


Sal

[scicala]

I stand corrected. The 272 was still available in '58 and possibly '59 in trucks.


Sal

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by ncauclair

Near Lexington and Staunton VA off of I 81. In the Shenandoah valley.

I should have known that. Born in Roanoke and am now a little above Martinsburg, WV (still trying to figure out how I wound up here in Yankee Country ... ).

[darrell]

the 272 was used in early 58 and then was upped to 292.scicala pointed out why it should be a 292.the valley cover is 58 or newer.unless someone shifted things around its a 292.if we knew what heads we could figure the year.

[KULTULZ]

Let's guess the ENGINE ID with just a few picture ...

That engine could be any combination of parts over the service life of the FYB.

It has to be ID'd by the CASTING ID and DATE CODE NOS.

What if the OP tries to sell it using incorrect info and once the buyer puts it on a forensic table finds what it was described as isn't?

I feel like I am watching old I CAME NAME THAT TUNE TV shows ...

[darrell]

its this or jeopardy.but really hes been told where to look and hasnt.take about 30 seconds to find what motot he has.look at the crank and see if the dots there.look over the oil filter and give us the letters which will tell a 272 or 292.

[streetdreams]

"its this or jeopardy.but really hes been told where to look and hasnt.take about 30 seconds to find what motot he has.look at the crank and see if the dots there.look over the oil filter and give us the letters which will tell a 272 or 292. "


Agree, and all this fuss so someone can sell it. I sure don't mind helping people on this forum, but geez, come on. If you're gonna sell it, start researching and do your homework.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by streetdreams

"its this or jeopardy.but really hes been told where to look and hasnt.take about 30 seconds to find what motot he has.look at the crank and see if the dots there.look over the oil filter and give us the letters which will tell a 272 or 292."


* * * *


Agree, and all this fuss so someone can sell it. I sure don't mind helping people on this forum, but geez, come on. If you're gonna sell it, start researching and do your homework.

Well ...

The problem here is that the OP doesn't understand what is being asked. It is not his fault as not all are enlightened to the level of knowledge of this board's members.

When you research how to go about identifying components, you get a hundred theories and opinions as to how.

It is very simple (to us). Post the cylinder block and cyl head (if visible) and an good time line idea can be given.

[ncauclair]

Alright cranky old engine geezers. As a novice--I took the myriad of advice from all participants--scoured the websites you recommended and took a scrub brush and dish soap and attempted to scrub off 62 years worth of rust and oil looking for this mysterious numbers streetdreams insisted was there. No lettering other than the one I took the photo of. Many of the attached parts had serial numbers on them--pointing to a 1957 build date. So, since most of the supporting parts looked original--as my military training provided--I'm making a command decision-- I'm calling the engine a 1957 292. Yes--I am selling the engine. I bought it because I thought I was going to use it in my 1962 Ford F-100 truck. But we rebuilt the engine that was in it. I have a 64 F-100 as well. It has a 351 C engine and C6 trans that the previous owner in the 70's transferred from a Mustang. I also have a 390 engine that was rebuilt in the 80's that I am trying to figure out what to do with. I have several 71 Mustangs that I was considering putting it into. So I'd say I do have skin in this engine game-albeit very green skin. Thanks for the all in the info and help. Cheers Nick

[KULTULZ]

--as my military training provided--I'm making a command decision--

Ah... 'Ye olde MILITARY MINDSET ...

... i am a dying cockroach ...

GOOD LUCK WITH IT!

[scicala]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

I agree. If you can't provide casting numbers for the block or heads, then this post is over.


Sal

[all american boy]

'Yes--I am selling the engine.'


Take it apart.You will like it.Lot's of interesting features.


It was the bridge between flatheads and all new OHV V8's in '58


Sort of a stop gap measure.


It was like Henry Ford did not trust his engineering staff to make an all new OHV V8 and said just put OHV heads on the flathead.


Somebody finally talked sense to him and they came out with all new V8's in '58


You will like the engine.


You won't get much for it anyhow.Shipping kills the deal.Unlikely there is fan of engine nearby to pick it up in person.

[scicala]

"It was like Henry Ford did not trust his engineering staff to make an all new OHV V8 and said just put OHV heads on the flathead."




So the Y-Block wasn't an all new V8 after the flathead ??


Sal

[all american boy]

'Y-Block wasn't an all new V8 after the flathead?'


Up to the block decks it was the flathead mildly redesigned.


Heads were all new.



The 239 cu in displacement is a clue there.Same in flathead and OHV V8.


It's purpose was to have an 'OHV V8'.Ford liked they money saving angle of not having to do a lot of retooling.


Flathead and and OHV V8 have same bore spacing.



Everybody but Chevy had one.Although when Chevy did come out with one it was all new a year later than Ford.So they gained more eventually.


OHV V8(Y block) is a fine engine.Plan on getting another.


Reality and I get along real well.

[40cpe]

Originally Posted by all american boy

'Yes--

It was like Henry Ford did not trust his engineering staff to make an all new OHV V8 and said just put OHV heads on the flathead.


Somebody finally talked sense to him and they came out with all new V8's in '58

'cept Henry Ford died in 1947

[all american boy]

'cept Henry Ford died in 1947'


Okay.The Old Guard that carried on after him would not unleash the engineering staff to design an all new OHV V8.They had to have known what GM was doing with the 265 Chevy engine.


Now.Ford put their Y block program in motion in '52 with the Lincoln so they carried on with that in the Ford and Mercury.


Also Ford Motor Company had a lot of responsibility.Whatever they came up with was sent all over the world.Ford was huge in the 50's.Can't compare it to today's Ford.So understandable that they played things safe.


If you are going to do battle with 283 or 327 get a 289 or 351.


Y block is for doing something interesting.Engine is sturdy just a little weighty.


It's thick wall casting.You can tell by rounded corners on block and heads.


Later thin wall casting has crisp sharp corners.

[streetdreams]

This post is turning into fantasy land. A Y Block is a flathead with OHV heads? Really? Stopgap design? Incidentally, Ford was not concerned with US designed engines overseas. Ford of Germany, France and England at the time had their own car/engine programs. Hence, English Anglias with 4 cylinder engines for example. US design cars were slightly redesigned cosmetically for Canada, and badge names were played with, but they were still essentially American. You will see 352 FE's in Canadian Mercurys for example, vs the 390 in US cars.
Lastly, there is a part number cast into the side of the block. They may be 3/8 to 1/2 inch tall and thin script, but they are there. Never seen a block without them unless someone ground them off.
Don't see many crisp sharp corners on a 289/302/351W. Those are thin wall castings.
It also costed more to tool for an OHV engine vs the flathead. I could go on and on about the post war engineering challenges of higher horsepower, availability of high octane gas, heavier cars, 5 year planning cycles, future high speed super highways, and the programs, sometimes incorrect, to solve those challenges, but I don't want to appear cranky.

[all american boy]

' Y Block is a flathead with OHV heads'


Yes indeedy.Note the webbing at block deck over lifter gallery.Flathead.


If it was an all new design you would think the block to heads oil passage would line up.Wouldn't it?


'Stopgap design?'


They had the '58 FE and MEL engine program in progress.This bought them time until they came out.Why do you think Y block had 350 cubic inch practical limit?


Anyhow.Y block is a good engine.Knowing what it really is helps when it comes to working on them and hopping 'em up.


Parts are plentiful.It's rugged.

[scicala]

I don't buy that for one second. The Y-Block V8 was closer to an FE than a flathead. The same engineering team designed both. Completely different block design with a Y design for more strength with the crankshaft center line well above the oil pan rail.


Sal

[KULTULZ]

You're fighting a losing battle Sal...

[all american boy]

'The Y-Block V8 was closer to an FE than a flathead. The same engineering team designed both.'


Okay.We will take another look at it.


Will say a good thing to do would be to get one of those aluminum timing covers.That cast iron timing cover is pretty hefty.


Then an aluminum intake.Shed a few more pounds.


That is for racing though.


Okay.Will rethink Y block is flathead copy with Ford factory overhead valve conversion kit.


Guess there are a lot of new features.

[paul2748]

Other than the same displacement, the Y was a whole new engine. How any one can say different is beyond me

Originally Posted by all american boy

'Y-Block wasn't an all new V8 after the flathead?'


Up to the block decks it was the flathead mildly redesigned.


Heads were all new.



The 239 cu in displacement is a clue there.Same in flathead and OHV V8.


It's purpose was to have an 'OHV V8'.Ford liked they money saving angle of not having to do a lot of retooling.


Flathead and and OHV V8 have same bore spacing.



Everybody but Chevy had one.Although when Chevy did come out with one it was all new a year later than Ford.So they gained more eventually.


OHV V8(Y block) is a fine engine.Plan on getting another.


Reality and I get along real well.

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by all american boy

'Y-Block wasn't an all new V8 after the flathead?'


Up to the block decks it was the flathead mildly redesigned.


Heads were all new.



The 239 cu in displacement is a clue there.Same in flathead and OHV V8.


It's purpose was to have an 'OHV V8'.Ford liked they money saving angle of not having to do a lot of retooling.


Flathead and and OHV V8 have same bore spacing.



Everybody but Chevy had one.Although when Chevy did come out with one it was all new a year later than Ford.So they gained more eventually.


OHV V8(Y block) is a fine engine.Plan on getting another.


Reality and I get along real well.

Nope! Flathead is no relation to the Y block. Bore spacing is not the same. Compare head gaskets.
Flathead is three main bearings. Y block is five. Y block is deep skirt design. Flathead is not. Flathead has front mount distributor. Y block is rear distributor. Y block has external oil pump. Flathead is internal oil pump. Y block has 10 head bolts per side. Flathead has 24, in an entirely different pattern.
Flathead has the crankshaft offset from the block centerline. Y block does not. So no flathead tooling nor casting patterns would work on the Y block. It had to be all new!

[all american boy]

Oh.Okay.Hmph!


Still going to put it in tube frame direct drive/no in/out box.


Still going to fabricate box intake manifold from thin gauge steel sheet.


Have to apply some new thinking to the designed in '54 engine.


We reserve the right to think!


Make that 'fiercely defend'!

[scicala]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

You're fighting a losing battle Sal...

I know KULTULZ. Sometimes you just have to say something even if it falls on deaf ears.


Sal

[estout81]

Some people will argue with a stump!

[Ford blue blood]

Originally Posted by estout81

Some people will argue with a stump!

Even though it is really a rock......