The Ford Barn

rotorwrench · 02-13-2017, 06:49 PM

Originally the pump fed up to a small gallery at the top of the pump that is connected to a feed for the aft main bearing and then the oil continued to feed up up to the dual port boss on the back of the block. The top port is is in line with the feed that was originally from the pump. The side port is in line with the horizontal feed over to the main oil gallery tube that pretty much feeds everything else.

When they modify the pump, it should have the original internal outlet closed off where it exits the gear chamber. The new outlet would go through a fitting plumbed through the side of the oil pan and then plumbed up to the filter then on to the dual port boss. I imagine it can be plumbed to either of the two ports. This would still allow lubricant to come back down from above and lubricate the rear main. If it is an 8BA, the pump should still have a pressure regulator there where the feed goes to the rear main. If it's an older engine, they could do away with that and continue to use the normal regulator at the front of the block. There would be no need to plug any ports in the dual port boss if it is set up this way. I think the plug in the horizontal port would only be necessary if it was plumbed for a 95% type filtration system and a new port would be drilled into the gallery feed to separate the flow.

JSeery · 02-13-2017, 06:55 PM

Rotorwrench, did you see the photos I posted in #18? They take the pressure off the bottom of the pump.

rotorwrench · 02-13-2017, 07:10 PM

You can see the outside but you can't see what they did to plug the inside. The L-head V8s were all designed to use the the oil pump fit up in the block to form a passage to the rear main plus there's the regulator.

The only draw back is plumbing up the exit from the oil sump. A person needs a lock-o-seal and an AN bulkhead fitting with a nut or something there to prevent oil seepage or at least minimize it.

The 95% set up was used by Ford & GM (and likely a few others) for a long time and they work pretty well. A person just has to be certain he plumbs it correctly to prevent oil starvation.

Kurt in NJ · 02-13-2017, 07:40 PM

Perhaps the idler gear is missing----or a new cam didn't get the gear put on to drive the oil pump

2 things I have seen with modified oiling systems----lines going into the filter wrong and drainback valve stops flow---
Little plastic plugs were put in openings and not removed---on one engine it was found a long ways from where it was put--oil pressure pushed it down the passage and it blocked off the front main---it siezed

OLD AS I · 02-14-2017, 06:50 AM

Cant thank you guys enough for all the comments, been unable to do anything but read the replies here, thanks again to all. First I have to mention its a full flow system not 95% as I mentioned, no doubt I'm doing to many things at once and to much on my mind, I have a lot of confidence with the chap who assyd it for me, yes, I know we all can screw up but feel its my screw up till I find otherwise.
Going to start by removing oil lines at filter and hitting starter button and see if I get oil coming out, if nothing, remove fittings at block where pressure gauge and line connects, and hitting starter, hopefully something shows up then, if nothing will repost here. Again thanks to all

flatjack9 · 02-14-2017, 09:41 AM

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Don't expect to get oil immediately.

40cpe · 02-14-2017, 09:56 AM

Put 12 volts on it for a couple of minutes. If it will pump you will have pressure by then.

tubman · 02-14-2017, 11:22 AM

I agree with the last two guys; when I first spun my '51 Merc over, it seemed to take forever to build pressure on the gauge. I don't think it was a couple of minutes, but it seemed like a loooong time.

40cpe · 02-14-2017, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tubman

I agree with the last two guys; when I first spun my '51 Merc over, it seemed to take forever to build pressure on the gauge. I don't think it was a couple of minutes, but it seemed like a loooong time.

I timed mine, it was 45 seconds until I got 10 pounds from the pressure relief in the filter. I had the spark plugs out and filled the filter before cranking the engine over, only took a few more for engine pressure at 40 #. That does seem like a long time listening to that starter run.

I only mentioned 2 minutes to give it plenty of time.

Jack E/NJ · 02-14-2017, 02:10 PM

I know this diagram of a more traditional fullflow setup has been posted before. But might be useful to post again here.

rotorwrench · 02-14-2017, 02:38 PM

That is actually a 95% flow diagram since the rear main still gets the oil first. Full flow completely bypasses all the pump oil output to the filter first and then back into the block.

The only thing that is sort of a worry to me about the full flow is that the pressure through the filter is unregulated. With the 95% set up the pressure is regulated first before it exits the block to the filter.

JSeery · 02-14-2017, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldasi

Going to start by removing oil lines at filter and hitting starter button and see if I get oil coming out, if nothing, remove fittings at block where pressure gauge and line connects, and hitting starter, hopefully something shows up then, if nothing will repost here. Again thanks to all

Going backwards! You won't get any oil out of the fitting at the rear of the block. That is the oil input, not the oil output. The oil input is from the side of the oil pan. The oil route is from the side of the oil pan to the filter and then from the filter to to the rear fitting on the block.

LOL, there is a whole lot of confusion going on here! Need to get the direction of the oil flow stright so you know where to check.

d.j. moordigian · 02-14-2017, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack E/NJ

I know this diagram of a more traditional fullflow setup has been posted before. But might be useful to post again here.

BINGO!
Also,..make sure that the plug, that separates the oil,(in the diagram) is in there, through the horizontal hole is in there!
Dudley

Jack E/NJ · 02-14-2017, 03:13 PM

rotor>>>That is actually a 95% flow diagram since the rear main still gets the oil first.>>>

As DJ pointed out, that little plug in there makes it otherwise. 8^) Jack E/NJ

jagnweiner · 02-14-2017, 03:22 PM

If it were me, I'm thinking I'd wait for the engine rebuilder to get back from vacation and go through this process together.

JSeery · 02-14-2017, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d.j. moordigian

BINGO!
Also,..make sure that the plug, that separates the oil,(in the diagram) is in there, through the horizontal hole is in there!
Dudley

Guys, he does not have a 95% system and it will not have the plug shown. This is just confusing things beyond belief.

flathead4rd · 02-14-2017, 05:30 PM

Like I said in the first post. The filter must not be filled with oil. It must be empty. It causes a hydraulic lock in the system. I had the same problem the first time I changed my oil and spin on filter. I have Mark Kirby's full flow system. Gave Mark a call about the no oil pressure problem and that's what he told me to do. It worked. Have changed my oil and filter several times since then and no more oil pressure problems.

flatjack9 · 02-14-2017, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

That is actually a 95% flow diagram since the rear main still gets the oil first. Full flow completely bypasses all the pump oil output to the filter first and then back into the block.

The only thing that is sort of a worry to me about the full flow is that the pressure through the filter is unregulated. With the 95% set up the pressure is regulated first before it exits the block to the filter.

Not so. The pressure relief is still active in the pump, just like normal.

Ronnie · 02-14-2017, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSeery

Guys, he does not have a 95% system and it will not have the plug shown. This is just confusing things beyond belief.

Seery wow these wizards that are posting about the flow design in question have no clue what the post about that is quite obvious. 95% really

R

tubman · 02-14-2017, 06:08 PM

Boy, I'm sure glad I left the stock bypass systems on both of the 8BA's I'm currently building. Given the way these cars are driven and the conditions we experience, I think a bypass system is a lot better any of these "Full-Flow" or "95%" systems. They are overkill.

Think about it; these cars benefit more from the finer filtration the bypass system gives rather than from the ability the the other systems give you by getting the big chunks out faster. Plus, when you consider that most owners change their oil at (probably) less than 1000 miles intervals, it becomes a moot point.

02-13-2017, 06:49 PM	#21
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,440	Re: 59 V8 rebuild, no oil pressure Originally the pump fed up to a small gallery at the top of the pump that is connected to a feed for the aft main bearing and then the oil continued to feed up up to the dual port boss on the back of the block. The top port is is in line with the feed that was originally from the pump. The side port is in line with the horizontal feed over to the main oil gallery tube that pretty much feeds everything else. When they modify the pump, it should have the original internal outlet closed off where it exits the gear chamber. The new outlet would go through a fitting plumbed through the side of the oil pan and then plumbed up to the filter then on to the dual port boss. I imagine it can be plumbed to either of the two ports. This would still allow lubricant to come back down from above and lubricate the rear main. If it is an 8BA, the pump should still have a pressure regulator there where the feed goes to the rear main. If it's an older engine, they could do away with that and continue to use the normal regulator at the front of the block. There would be no need to plug any ports in the dual port boss if it is set up this way. I think the plug in the horizontal port would only be necessary if it was plumbed for a 95% type filtration system and a new port would be drilled into the gallery feed to separate the flow.

02-13-2017, 06:55 PM	#22
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: 59 V8 rebuild, no oil pressure Rotorwrench, did you see the photos I posted in #18? They take the pressure off the bottom of the pump.

02-13-2017, 07:10 PM	#23
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,440	Re: 59 V8 rebuild, no oil pressure You can see the outside but you can't see what they did to plug the inside. The L-head V8s were all designed to use the the oil pump fit up in the block to form a passage to the rear main plus there's the regulator. The only draw back is plumbing up the exit from the oil sump. A person needs a lock-o-seal and an AN bulkhead fitting with a nut or something there to prevent oil seepage or at least minimize it. The 95% set up was used by Ford & GM (and likely a few others) for a long time and they work pretty well. A person just has to be certain he plumbs it correctly to prevent oil starvation.

02-13-2017, 07:40 PM	#24
Kurt in NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: on the Littlefield Posts: 6,159	Re: 59 V8 rebuild, no oil pressure Perhaps the idler gear is missing----or a new cam didn't get the gear put on to drive the oil pump 2 things I have seen with modified oiling systems----lines going into the filter wrong and drainback valve stops flow--- Little plastic plugs were put in openings and not removed---on one engine it was found a long ways from where it was put--oil pressure pushed it down the passage and it blocked off the front main---it siezed

02-14-2017, 06:50 AM	#25
OLD AS I Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Oakwood, ON Canada Posts: 251	Re: 59 V8 rebuild, no oil pressure Cant thank you guys enough for all the comments, been unable to do anything but read the replies here, thanks again to all. First I have to mention its a full flow system not 95% as I mentioned, no doubt I'm doing to many things at once and to much on my mind, I have a lot of confidence with the chap who assyd it for me, yes, I know we all can screw up but feel its my screw up till I find otherwise. Going to start by removing oil lines at filter and hitting starter button and see if I get oil coming out, if nothing, remove fittings at block where pressure gauge and line connects, and hitting starter, hopefully something shows up then, if nothing will repost here. Again thanks to all

02-14-2017, 09:41 AM	#26
flatjack9 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oshkosh, Wi Posts: 4,527	Re: 59 V8 rebuild, no oil pressure Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Don't expect to get oil immediately.

02-14-2017, 09:56 AM	#27
40cpe Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Star, MS Posts: 4,024	Re: 59 V8 rebuild, no oil pressure Put 12 volts on it for a couple of minutes. If it will pump you will have pressure by then.

02-14-2017, 11:22 AM	#28
tubman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys Posts: 10,320	Re: 59 V8 rebuild, no oil pressure I agree with the last two guys; when I first spun my '51 Merc over, it seemed to take forever to build pressure on the gauge. I don't think it was a couple of minutes, but it seemed like a loooong time.

02-14-2017, 02:38 PM	#31
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,440	Re: 59 V8 rebuild, no oil pressure That is actually a 95% flow diagram since the rear main still gets the oil first. Full flow completely bypasses all the pump oil output to the filter first and then back into the block. The only thing that is sort of a worry to me about the full flow is that the pressure through the filter is unregulated. With the 95% set up the pressure is regulated first before it exits the block to the filter.

02-14-2017, 03:13 PM	#34
Jack E/NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,173	Re: 59 V8 rebuild, no oil pressure rotor>>>That is actually a 95% flow diagram since the rear main still gets the oil first.>>> As DJ pointed out, that little plug in there makes it otherwise. 8^) Jack E/NJ

02-14-2017, 03:22 PM	#35
jagnweiner Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Geneseo, IL Posts: 290	Re: 59 V8 rebuild, no oil pressure If it were me, I'm thinking I'd wait for the engine rebuilder to get back from vacation and go through this process together. __________________ Regards, Scott '47 Mercury Convertible '25 Dodge Bros. Touring Car '63 MG Midget

02-14-2017, 05:30 PM	#37
flathead4rd Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Michigan Posts: 505	Re: 59 V8 rebuild, no oil pressure Like I said in the first post. The filter must not be filled with oil. It must be empty. It causes a hydraulic lock in the system. I had the same problem the first time I changed my oil and spin on filter. I have Mark Kirby's full flow system. Gave Mark a call about the no oil pressure problem and that's what he told me to do. It worked. Have changed my oil and filter several times since then and no more oil pressure problems.

02-14-2017, 06:08 PM	#40
tubman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys Posts: 10,320	Re: 59 V8 rebuild, no oil pressure Boy, I'm sure glad I left the stock bypass systems on both of the 8BA's I'm currently building. Given the way these cars are driven and the conditions we experience, I think a bypass system is a lot better any of these "Full-Flow" or "95%" systems. They are overkill. Think about it; these cars benefit more from the finer filtration the bypass system gives rather than from the ability the the other systems give you by getting the big chunks out faster. Plus, when you consider that most owners change their oil at (probably) less than 1000 miles intervals, it becomes a moot point. Last edited by tubman; 02-14-2017 at 06:16 PM.