160-C Slant Windshield Blindback Fordor Owners

[forever4]

Originally Posted by Steve Plucker

You will never know the "total" numbers of the 160-C Murray because Murray did not build the 160-C...It was Briggs (I hope I am right on this because I am sticking my neck out here).

Ford has the production records for 1931 called the Assembly Record Types (ART)...this tells us the production number of each model assembled by the Ford Motor Company.

In the 1931 ART, the 160-C (Deluxe Fordor Sedan Slant Window/Briggs) numbers were intermingled with the 170-B (Deluxe Fordor Sedan/Briggs) figures.

USA had 3231; Foreign had 1358; Canada had 378. The 1932 ART tells us that only the foreign market produced these at 202 (160-C).

The 160-CDL replaced the 170-BDL in July 1931.

HOWEVER...Stated in the book "The Ford Model A as Henry Built it" it states that there were 2491 160-C's (DL) and 740 170-B's (DL) built in 1931.

Pluck

This brings up a few questions I have for all the 160-C Slant Windshield Blindback Fordor owners.

Does your car have an original firewall body tag or not, and is it a Murray or Briggs? A 153- or a 160C-, or other?

If so, what is the prefix and number? This data would be very useful in clarifying some questions on this rare body style.

http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/US2831bodystyles.htm

See the link above for some information on the various body builders and body tags. Please use my avatar to email me if you like. Thank you.

[petcar]

I'm not sure I would stick my neck out too far on this one. Murray did indeed produce 160-C models in 1931. My car does indeed have the original Murray body Tag on the firewall. The tag shows 160-C 113 ( guessing it was the 113th made )
So... Murray did indeed produce the 160-C Dlx in 1931 and I do indeed own one. Feel free to double check me on this, many on the Ford Barn here will be glad to supply info, along with several on the Model A Ford Club of America. I apologize if I seem a bit defensive here ( I really don't mean to ) But I'm proud of my rare old car, and I would be truly surprised if the car in my garage were some sort of ghost. :-)

[petcar]

Oops! forgot to incluse this, sorry! Better late than never :-)

[forever4]

Originally Posted by petcar

Oops! forgot to incluse this, sorry! Better late than never :-)

Thank you for replying and supplying the photo. That is exactly the kind of confirmation needed!

The chart on my web page already aligns with your evidence.

Is your car an early straight firewall model, or a later indented firewall model?
Thanks

[petcar]

Humm... Not quite sure which indents you mean. There is a large indent directly behind the engine, then indented ribbing ( looks a bit like sheet metal strengthening ribs). It's colder than a well diggers keister here, so I went out and took a photo if that would help. In the picture you can see one of the murray bolts. AND <hangs head in shame> more than a few water spots where I didn't clean her after the recent rain.
If it would help I could post it here also. Just don't tease me about not cleaning it first :-)

[WTSHNN]

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Originally Posted by petcar

Humm... Not quite sure which indents you mean. There is a large indent directly behind the engine, then indented ribbing ( looks a bit like sheet metal strengthening ribs). It's colder than a well diggers keister here, so I went out and took a photo if that would help. In the picture you can see one of the murray bolts. AND <hangs head in shame> more than a few water spots where I didn't clean her after the recent rain.
If it would help I could post it here also. Just don't tease me about not cleaning it first :-)

Do you turn the gas off from inside the car under the tank or outside of the car on the passenger firewall?

-Tim

[petcar]

Gas turns off from inside the car.

[Bob Bidonde]

This explains the Indented and Straight firewalls. The sketch on the left shows the 2 variations of the Indented firewall. The sketch on the right is the Straight firewall. The cahnge to the Indented firewall was brought about by the relocation of the gas shutoff valve to the engine side of the firewall.
Cars brought in for service with leaking firewalls received the new Indented design. Ford removed the Straight firewalls and re-stamped them to incorporate the Indent.

[petcar]

Well this I did not know, Thanks Bob, The fuel cut-off is inside the vehicle, But where the fuel line exits the firewall & into the glass bowl filter the firewall is flat. Would that have made it an early production that should have been modified?

[WTSHNN]

Originally Posted by petcar

Well this I did not know, Thanks Bob, The fuel cut-off is inside the vehicle, But where the fuel line exits the firewall & into the glass bowl filter the firewall is flat. Would that have made it an early production that should have been modified?

It is an early production, yes, but I have seen more flat firewalls on s/w cars than I have seen restamped. I have always heard the restamped firewalls were done at the factory to use up remaining stock.

-Tim

[forever4]

Originally Posted by Bob Bidonde

This explains the Indented and Straight firewalls. The sketch on the left shows the 2 variations of the Indented firewall. The sketch on the right is the Straight firewall. The cahnge to the Indented firewall was brought about by the relocation of the gas shutoff valve to the engine side of the firewall.
Cars brought in for service with leaking firewalls received the new Indented design. Ford removed the Straight firewalls and re-stamped them to incorporate the Indent.

Hi Bob,
I think you have a little mixup in your explanation.
Ford had a problem with gas tanks leaking at the steering column bracket, and made a design change to the so called indented firewall and under hood shutoff valve in April 1931.

When Ford changed to the indented firewall, new tank, and valve, they issued a service bulletin in April or May 1931 showing the dealer how to install the newer gas tank into the earlier older 1930-31 bodies, and it involved a short extension fuel pipe out of the tank.

Ford did not remove or rework firewalls.

The restamped firewalls occasionally seen (usually on 1931 commercial) were re-strikes of warehouse inventory of flat firewalls. This was a way to use up material on hand. Not rework as-built bodies.

[Steve Plucker]

Originally Posted by petcar

I'm not sure I would stick my neck out too far on this one. Murray did indeed produce 160-C models in 1931. My car does indeed have the original Murray body Tag on the firewall. The tag shows 160-C 113 ( guessing it was the 113th made )
So... Murray did indeed produce the 160-C Dlx in 1931 and I do indeed own one. Feel free to double check me on this, many on the Ford Barn here will be glad to supply info, along with several on the Model A Ford Club of America. I apologize if I seem a bit defensive here ( I really don't mean to ) But I'm proud of my rare old car, and I would be truly surprised if the car in my garage were some sort of ghost. :-)

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petcar,

I realized my mistke at 4:24 AM...Vince must of picked it up before that.

So yes...Murray did produce the 160-C...Just how many is unknown to me and just how many Bruggs produced is also unknown to me.

It would be nice if Vince would share his information.

Pluck

[forever4]

Originally Posted by Steve Plucker

petcar,

I realized my mistke at 4:24 AM...Vince must of picked it up before that.

So yes...Murray did produce the 160-C...Just how many is unknown to me and just how many Bruggs produced is also unknown to me.

It would be nice if Vince would share his information.

Pluck

I have shared my info if you care to read it or consider it.

Also if you go back and re-look at the Assembly Records Types, you may see the numbers do math out.

How did you determine that the 170-B Deluxe was produced until July 1931? I would be interested in that.

[Steve Plucker]

Originally Posted by forever4

I have shared my info if you care to read it or consider it.

Also if you go back and re-look at the Assembly Records Types, you may see the numbers do math out. Would you care to show us?

How did you determine that the 170-B Deluxe was produced until July 1931? I would be interested in that.

I did not say that "the 170-B DL was produced until July 1931"...I would be interested in where you saw that!


What I did say was that "the 160-C DL replaced the 170-B DL in July of 1931" but may have been a few months earlier like in April of 1931 according to "The Ford Model A as Henry Built It" when the slant windshield type cars were starting to be assembled. The "July" thought came from the July, 1931 issue of Ford News when they were first introduced in that publication...guess I better make some changes to my document but thanks for asking!

Pluck

[forever4]

[Oldbluoval]

Had one but sold it to Roy Frost in Pell City, AL
Lost track of it since then.

BU

[Roger V]

Had one but sold to Kevin Ricks, Livonia, MI August 1, 2014.

[Bob C]

Originally Posted by forever4

Hi Bob,
I think you have a little mixup in your explanation.
Ford had a problem with gas tanks leaking at the steering column bracket, and made a design change to the so called indented firewall and under hood shutoff valve in April 1931.

When Ford changed to the indented firewall, new tank, and valve, they issued a service bulletin in April or May 1931 showing the dealer how to install the newer gas tank into the earlier older 1930-31 bodies, and it involved a short extension fuel pipe out of the tank.

Ford did not remove or rework firewalls.

The restamped firewalls occasionally seen (usually on 1931 commercial) were re-strikes of warehouse inventory of flat firewalls. This was a way to use up material on hand. Not rework as-built bodies.

Vince, is it possible there was more to it than just the leaking at column
bracket. I would think if it was just the leaking at the bracket they would
have stayed with the A-9002-D tank that used the flat firewall but eliminated the bracket. Below is a picture of that tank in my early 1931
AA.

Bob

[tbirdtbird]

i had been told by more than one old-timer that the state of PA passed a law forbidding gas shut-offs inside a car's cabin

[forever4]

Originally Posted by Bob C

Vince, is it possible there was more to it than just the leaking at column
bracket. I would think if it was just the leaking at the bracket they would
have stayed with the A-9002-D tank that used the flat firewall but eliminated the bracket. Below is a picture of that tank in my early 1931
AA.

Bob

Bob,
Your tank is a very unusual tank only used for a month or so until the firewall valve and indented firewall came out. As others said, I think Ford's directive was to get rid of as many fuel connections/leak sources as possible from inside the car. Of course, they did keep the sight glass and float which also tends to seep a little.