Balancing ?

[TDO]

Recently Had to change harmonic balancer on my daughters truck. Got me thinking, when did Ford start using harmonic balancer? And could one be modified to work on the Model A? And would it be worth while?

[colin1928]

I have been using harmonic balancers on my personal engines for 10 years + and believe they are worth while
there is no of the shelf unit you can buy mine are 1s that I machined from stock to fit
there are some plans of on the hamb using a SBC unit that works with minor trim of the cross member

[Pete]

Originally Posted by TDO

Recently Had to change harmonic balancer on my daughters truck. Got me thinking, when did Ford start using harmonic balancer? And could one be modified to work on the Model A? And would it be worth while?

The heavy small block Chev ones are quite easy to modify.
They definitely help reduce torsional vibration and are very common on race engines. Here is a pic from the back side of one on a B engine. The fluid filled ones work equally as well,BUT, do not use the shot filled ones.

[katy]

when did Ford start using harmonic balancer?

They used them on flathead V-8s up till the end. Don't remember if they put them on Y blocks or not.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by Pete

The heavy small block Chev ones are quite easy to modify.
They definitely help reduce torsional vibration and are very common on race engines. Here is a pic from the back side of one on a B engine. The fluid filled ones work equally as well,BUT, do not use the shot filled ones.

Hey Pete,
Thanks for sharing that picture and you knowledge !
Looking at the picture, I'm wondering where the crank 'pulley' is located. If no pulley, how is that handled

[hardtimes]

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Originally Posted by katy

They used them on flathead V-8s up till the end. Don't remember if they put them on Y blocks or not.

Hey katy,
Hm, have never seen a harmonic balancer on a flathead V8, Unless it was aftermarket/custom made. Do you have a picture of a stock balancer on a V8 flathead ?

[Pete]

Originally Posted by hardtimes

Hey Pete,
Thanks for sharing that picture and you knowledge !
Looking at the picture, I'm wondering where the crank 'pulley' is located. If no pulley, how is that handled

The belt sheave is bolted to the front.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by Pete

The belt sheave is bolted to the front.

Thanks ! So sheave is held onto crank nose by bolt, not bolted to dampener ?
I really like the SBC idea, as they are so plentiful and cheap !
Wondering why chev dampener vs other brands ? I'm guessing that chev size lends itself to our application.
Also, have you examined a 'rattler' dampener as to efficacy vs fluid and two part (with rubber between) ?

[Charlie Stephens]

Gene Scott (deceased) used to make one for the A. His business in Rosemead, CA, is still open but they are very hard to reach, (626) 288-3131, (626) 288-2121 These numbers are old and may no longer work. I think Ron Kelly might make one, somebody did.

Charlie Stephens

[Pete]

Originally Posted by hardtimes

Thanks ! So sheave is held onto crank nose by bolt, not bolted to dampener ?
I really like the SBC idea, as they are so plentiful and cheap !
Wondering why chev dampener vs other brands ? I'm guessing that chev size lends itself to our application.
Also, have you examined a 'rattler' dampener as to efficacy vs fluid and two part (with rubber between) ?

It is bolted to the damper with 3 socket head cap screws.
Other brands may work. The Chev requires a minimum of machining.
I have heard of the "Rattler" but don't know what is inside.
The shot filled ones overheat at high rpm, the shot welds itself together, the unit becomes out of balance and explodes.
To find out if your damper is working, make a few high speed runs at full throttle and then CAREFULLY feel the damper. It will be warm or even hot. If it is stone cold you may not need it.

[hardtimes]

Hey Pete,
Great tip regarding checking the balancer, thanks !
TCI Rattler is the one that I'm referring to. Different from anything else , looks like.
I'm a believer in what you and other race engine builders have said regarding damper/balancers. I'm about to try two different types on two different B engines; a NOS Winfield..2 piece; and a custom integral pulley rubber two piece.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Ron Kelly makes one that goes inside the flywheel.
Bill W.

[AL in NY]

Crazydaddyo posted these pictures over on H.A.M.B. in 2013.

[katy]

Hey katy,
Hm, have never seen a harmonic balancer on a flathead V8, Unless it was aftermarket/custom made. Do you have a picture of a stock balancer on a V8 flathead ?

My mistake, I meant to say that flathead V-8s used plain pulleys up till the end.
Sorry about that.

[Flathead]

Y-blocks did have them.

[callcoy]

The performance interested guys and gals over on the sister site The Jalopy Journal,s HAMB section has a monthly post called The (enter month) Banger Meeting. Do a search on the HAMB to get to it. It makes sense that individuals stressing their engines to the limit are always interested in ways to push the envelope a little further. The October Meet and I believe the current Nov. Meet has quite a bit on dampeners.

As mentioned above crazydaddyo has dampeners on his engines, the late Jay Steel who bought Taylor Engines in Whittier (Taylor & Ryan when they did engines for me) made dampeners for A's and B's. Do a search on The HAMB and you will find more posts on the topic from previous months and years.

Do you need one, that is a personal decision, do they work, I think that is a given, I don't think you can find an automobile engine made today without one. By doing a search you will find testimony stating that individuals believe that using one has stopped crank breakage in their engines.

Using one may fit in that category of having a modified car, but then we do add things to make them safer such as seat belts, turn signals and improved lighting. We also add things to get more reliability and durability from our cars and engines, that being said that would I think that a all stock, all original or fine points car have one, definitely not!

If it were my touring type car/engine and I wanted to enhance the durability and reliability of the combination and didn't have to hack up the frame in anyway I personally would want one. Which by the way when you visit the other site there is a guy making them right now for $350.00, that fit without alteration of your cross member. You will also find that some of the dampeners offered may require modification of certain types of front motor mounts.

With the expense of rebuilding Model A type engines today and the possibility of breaking a crank, this may give your engine a longer life. Will it guarantee
that you wont throw a rod or break a crank, no! But on the other hand this concept is proven it is not some scam like we saw in the 1950's where you could buy out of Popular Mechanics a package of discs that when put in your gas tank would grind your valves.

[AL in NY]

callcoy, could you post a link pointing to the person making a dampener for the Model A for $350.00

[curtisldean]

This is an interesting discussion, did anyone ever come up with a manufacturer for this balancer?

[callcoy]

AL in NY
Hi Al haven't connected with you in several years, last time was off this subject RE: F-150 and T-5 trans stuff. Back on topic, have been ill, so late in getting back. I am computer dummy (CD and maybe ED) so I can not provide a link. I believe his name is Joe, he has several photos of his prototype starting with post 3 of the November Monthly Banger Meet.

To find this, login on the Jalopy Journal, click on THE HAMB, search Banger Monthly Meeting, select Nov. 2015 posts and go to post #3, there will be several references thru out the months posts on dampeners. I wish I was smart enough to provide a link but I am not. I would encourage all that are interested this subject to backup a month and view the entire Oct. posts, there are several other photos of other units. One used by a guy down under maybe British made, contact him for additional info.

Your earlier post showing (Dan) crazydaddyo's dampener is very similar to what Jay Steel and his successor have done. Dan by the way is very sharp, mfg's the T-5 (S-10) closed drive line adapter for Ford closed drive line, that is sold thru Steve Serr's operation (Improved Miller OHV Head). There is a bell housing adapting the A to T-5 available also thru Serr. There I go again getting off topic, sorry!

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

Ron Kelly makes one that goes inside the flywheel.
Bill W.

That's the one I have.